Bait and Switch or "mis-translation" what would you do?
 

Okay, so I was in need of some advertising graphics and my wife took the time to help me out last week.

She visited a bunch of local sign stores and they quoted about $15-$20 per item. We then found an outfit that works out of their house about 2 blocks from my place and they told me wife "$75 for 10 of x, $55 for $10 of y, and $25 for 2 of z"

After looking at the quotes I sent the latter place an e-mail saying: I am confirming your quote for: $75 for 10 of x, $55 for $10 of y, and $25 for 2 of z. Can you complete by Friday? If so, please go ahead. They e-mailed me back saying they were working on it and when the items were ready. I show up, pay the wife $180 and leave.

So today I get an e-mail from the husband saying "Chris, I guess we have a problem with the translation on the prices for your graphics. I told your wife $75.00 each for the eyebrows with the backing & $55.00 each for the lettering without the backing, you emailed us with $75.00 for 10 eyebrows etc. My wife made the invoice from this email without looking at it frist. We need to correct this. I was at the track all day & was not here to produce the invoice properly."

So now the guy is telling me that "oh, well the bill is $1300, not $180. At first I thought, well probably mistake. However the more I think about it, Items y $50 and z $25 are nearly the same. So if they were EACH why so much difference in the price? These guys are a "work-from-home" outfit so there is no justification on this commodity item (20 places in town that do it) for chargind 4 times the cost, but certainly understandable with no overhead that it would be cheaper.

Is this a bait-and-switch? Should I even remotely consider paying them? My inclination is that they made a mistake, but they want me to pay for it. Had they told us, and confirmed in e-mail EACH, I would have told them to pound salt because their quote was 4x higher than any other place in town.

Was the price they quoted when read as $75 for 10, etc in line with the other quotes, or did they fall into the too good to be true category?

If in line with other quotes then I would say that your email confirming the prices and approving the work if it could be completed by your deadline is in effect a purchase order. They accepted they purchase order by producing the work and did not send back a counter offer. That to me means it is their mistake and they eat the error.

Typically (from my experience) multiple pieces of graphic work (displays, posters, etc) are quoted as eaches and as the quantity goes up the price per each comes down.

Are these people related to Motor Meister Roy?????

Is this bait and switch? Sounds more like he's trying to cover his assets cause they realized they made a mistake.
Should you pay him? Heck no! If you have a written quote, make him stick to it. If it was all verbal, you would come out cheaper to walk away from the $180 you paid and get them elsewhere. Tell him politely that you don't understand why he is 4 times higher than everyone else and that you would have never accepted his bid unless you thought you were saving money from a nice couple working from home.
Lastly, in my unqualified opinion, since its all verbal, neither one of you can do anything in court.

I'd tell him you have a quote, and even if it's a mistake, he's still four times higher than everyone else in town. When you're getting quotes of around $300 for the lot and he's saying $180, that's one thing, but when you're getting quotes for $300 and he's thinking $1,300 you aren't finding something too good to be true. Stick to the price, or if you're a sucker, offer him something like halfway between the $180 and $300 quote you got.

I spoke with him about it. He told me his price was 3-4 times higher because his vinyl is that much better.

My e-mail said: After he e-mailed I suggested he call me. Then he explained that his prices were in line and name dropped, etc.. When I questioned his price he was a little surley and defensive but said he'd eat the cost and 'that will conclude our business'. I told him if he quoted $75 each that would have 'concluded our business in the first place.' I thanked him and said I'd try to recommend him to help out, his response was curt and a bit surley again. Don't think I'll be doing that.

Reminds me of dealing with a contractor.

Have you already used them? if not just return them and walk away?

Sounds like the guy realized that he has worthless to him vinyl. Unless you have a big deadline you'd be a fool to pay more than what you specified in your email. Sometimes the hole in the wall places really work out but often you get what you think you pay for. ;) Good Luck!

George

Hey!!

Go easy with that... :mad:


KT

For that kind of price difference, it should be 24K Gold! He is either a crook or doesn't have a firm grip on reality. Side note: it is not uncommon for con artists and thieves to get angry when you question them. They know that the average person doesn't want to make a scene and will back down. Get your order, and don't walk but run like He11 from this guy!
P.S. I think you need to keep your word: tell everyone in the area what kind of business he does! :eek:

Actually guys I picked up the goods when I paid. I was just trying to decide if I should pay the guyt he remainder. My inclination was not, that's the way I run my business, just wanted to hear the other side possibly. I can't always update prices on our site on time and probably sell an item every few months at a loss. I don't call the customer and tell him I need more...

I appreciate the feedback, he did make good on it so no harm there, was just suprised that he would call at all....

What brand of vinyl was used. He is lying his A** of to cover the fact that he is a crook. My parents have a sign shop and if they misquoted by that much they would just eat it. Unless it was reflective or gold leaf vinyl there is no way it cost him that much in materials sometimes you just have to eat the labor. If you have any questions regarding graphics in the future give me a call and I will help you make sure you don't get the shaft.

I promise not all sign/graphics guys are crooks. I'm sure mikez will agree.

If you look at the backing paper it will tell you a manufacture. If it is 3M or Avery take a look at signsupplyusa.com for prices. I buy full rolls to as little as 1 yard from them.

My only experience is using our 15+ years old Roland cutter with a Win 3.1 sign cutting software for simple stuff, or VectorWorks 11.5 (similar the AutoCAD) for graphics.

A large size item can be stitched from 15" or 24" wide vinyl. Weeding the negative part of the vinyl is time consuming, but only if it is small text, or cut wrong. Then man hours get involved. That could be what happened, the guy bid you based on the material cost. Then your graphic turned out to be more complicated than "war and peace". Also is the vinyl is old, or the cutter isn't sharp and calibrated right, the weeding can take 10 times longer than it should.

Sounds like either the guy can't add, or is trying to make you pay for his production error. Like a pool contractor bidding based on digging in dirt, but finds bedrock 6" under the soil.

Not your fault the invoice was not produced properly, let him eat the difference, he's trying to screw you!!!

Seemed high to me too. I should have asked the Pelican trust. MikeZ did a great job for me before, but I was short on time and asked the wife to help out so she went local. Next time I'll plan ahead better. Thanks for the offers guys!

If you have $1300 worth of goods or services, and you paid $180, you are the thief, regardless of the vendor's ineptitude. Karma will not be kind to you.

He paid the invoice that the wife produced for the work, the idiot was at the track and says the invoice was produced incorrectly, too bad the guy wasn't caring for the business rather than at the track.

He hasn't stolen anything, read the initial description of events and it will be clear, at least it was to me.

Interesting opinion.

I understand your point, and if these weren't essentially non-returnable items I'd have given them right back, but what's the guy going to do with 20 custom-cut graphics with our name on them?

I'm not sure how getting a quote, confirming it, getting a written receipt, and paying exactly what was asked makes me a thief. What would you have done? What if he called and said they were $100 apiece? $200? His quote is already 3-4x higher than anyone, confirmed by my other quotes. So I should just pay whatever he asked eh?

...and lets drop the insults. I haven't met you so I don't think you should take those liberties eh?

You did it right Chris, confirming a verbal price before production/order. He probably realized the quote was too low after he produced the graphics, and is trying to justify getting more money for them. They were too lazy to produce a written quote, and too lazy/rushed to even confirm the prices they gave you.

Not the way for them to run a business, hopefully they learned a lesson.

You are completely in the right, based on the facts presented. At the very least it sounds like the guy is a terrible businessman, which is his problem not yours. It is one thing if you know that someone made an honest mistake grossly in your favor and you make it right even though you don't need to, which I am sure that you would do. The fact that you even have to ask about this situation shows your integrity, IMO.

A deal is a deal in my world. If someone tries to screw me, I'm a pitbull. OTOH, I will not charge 1 cent more than agreed for my own mistakes or miscalculations, and they do happen. There have been exceptions, but only when the change is discussed at a point in the job where the customer can still say no, not after all is done. On rare occasions, (one Pelican client in particular), I've very reluctantly accepted extra $$ at the end when I had slightly miscalculated in their favor. Still didn't feel completely right because it's not their fault that I make a miscalculation. What if my bid was all they had to spend on that job and that's why they agreed to it?

Considering what others charge for the work and the fact that you did not specify some special vinyl, I'd say you are fine.

You agreed to the quote they gave you as written by them.

They handed over the complete job for the "agreed" amount.

Sucks for them but you are in the right.

You could tell them that the other quotes were in the range of A-X. You will give them the diff between $180 and the next lowest bid minus 10%. The minus 10% is because you were shopping the price and your intention was to look for the best price.

But if you don't do that it is my opinion that you are still in the right and don't owe them a penny more.

Chris I have no idea what to make out of that transaction. I can see from you email that it was clear as to what you thought the charges were going to be. I think they just screwed up. It is weird that the wife has no idea how much this so called "premium" vinyl costs. I don't see anything wrong with you keeping what you paid for.

Well put.

Chris,
I have had two similar experiences. One was with a contractor (as someone alluded to earlier) and, unfortunately, there was no written contract or quote. The second time was with a vendor who basically did something like you are describing happened to you. Shortly thereafter, I had a friend obtain a quote for a package closely resembling my original order with the same supplier. This simple investigation quickly revealed their scheme/scam.

Given the facts as you have provided, the case is quite cut and dry. You have done absolutely nothing wrong. In fact, it appears that all of your ducks were truly 'in a row'. Even if you were quoted the wrong price the business owner is responsible. I smell an ethical issue with the purported business owner.

If I was happy with the product, I likely would pay the going rate of $300.