America Is Screwed

[tabs]

The world is going to cast a vote on Obama if he is elected to the Presidency. If the Dems should pick up NINE more Senate seats they will be able to pass ANY and ALL the legislation that they want with out restraint, without challenge and without any check on the reality. They will pass it because they want to. It is a big mistake to think Barry Obama is an empty suit, he is not. He represents the extreme left wing of the Dem Party. With his "Yes we Can" slogan Barry Obama intends to create a Revolution of Round Heads in American Politics.

However ther is one thing that could stop an Obama presidency in its tracks, and that is a vote of no confidence from the world financial markets. The foreign investors will simply STOP buying US debt, or the cost of the debt will sky rocket. With a return of a 16% interest rate on US debt ANY of Bary Obama'S majestic economic plans will be DOA. The effect on the US economy will be staggering. Possibly to the point of a collapse of the US economy and the unintended consequences of a Global financial meltdown.

With the Subprime and attending mortgage backed security market meltdown it has put world financial institutions on precarious ground. This debacle is now spreading into the rest of the global economy. This fact along with the large trade deficit, Fed deficits along with the 9.5 Trillion $$$ National debt is all the facts that one needs to draw the above conclusions.

[Seric]

He won't get elected, so no worries!

[Az911]

Originally Posted by Seric

He won't get elected, so no worries!

Hopefully the loons stay home and you're right.

[teenerted1]

just vote present

[cantdrv55]

Originally Posted by Seric

He won't get elected, so no worries!

I fear you are wrong. I am the lone conservative in my workplace where women outnumber men 4:1. I thought Palin would turn things around but I heard at the "watercooler" that no self-respecting feminist would take away a woman's right to choose so they see her as a nutcase instead. McCain's camp has lots of work to do.

[sammyg2]

Unfortunately I live in California so my wife's and my votes for McCain won't count, but there are plenty of other common sense folks who will defeat the suit.

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by tabs

However ther is one thing that could stop an Obama presidency in its tracks, and that is a vote of no confidence from the world financial markets. The foreign investors will simply STOP buying US debt, or the cost of the debt will sky rocket.

This is going to happen no matter who is elected, and yes, this is Bush's fault.

[varmint]

a truly eloquent and reasoned obama supporter. i wonder if this is what dipso really looks like?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26fihTzyq8A

[Tobra]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

Unfortunately I live in California so my wife's and my votes for McCain won't count, but there are plenty of other common sense folks who will defeat the suit.

it will be just like when Gray Davis was the Guv in Cali in the whole country, except without the nice climate and the good produce

[Normy]

Originally Posted by tabs

The world is going to cast a vote on Obama if he is elected to the Presidency. If the Dems should pick up NINE more Senate seats they will be able to pass ANY and ALL the legislation that they want with out restraint, without challenge and without any check on the reality. They will pass it because they want to. It is a big mistake to think Barry Obama is an empty suit, he is not. He represents the extreme left wing of the Dem Party. With his "Yes we Can" slogan Barry Obama intends to create a Revolution of Round Heads in American Politics.

However ther is one thing that could stop an Obama presidency in its tracks, and that is a vote of no confidence from the world financial markets. The foreign investors will simply STOP buying US debt, or the cost of the debt will sky rocket. With a return of a 16% interest rate on US debt ANY of Bary Obama'S majestic economic plans will be DOA. The effect on the US economy will be staggering. Possibly to the point of a collapse of the US economy and the unintended consequences of a Global financial meltdown.

With the Subprime and attending mortgage backed security market meltdown it has put world financial institutions on precarious ground. This debacle is now spreading into the rest of the global economy. This fact along with the large trade deficit, Fed deficits along with the 9.5 Trillion $$$ National debt is all the facts that one needs to draw the above conclusions.

Heh!

Silly scare tactics Rolo. The markets are NOT going to tank when Barry takes over in January. The economy will continue its slow improvement. It will probably pick up speed, since Barack will get us OUT of dubya's[McCain] war in Iraq and we won't be spending $10 billion per month anymore on a worthless war. A war started by the current Republican "president"...

dubya Bush[McCain]!

Anyway...I really hate to destroy your thread but you know you make it so damn easy for me sometimes! I mean, it's not even sporting anymore. You know, you could try a little bit harder for me....

-Ladies and gentlemen, let's review the record of the current Republican president, SHALL WE?

1. During the Democrat Clinton administration, median household income increased by more than $6,000. Under dubya[McCain], median houshold income decreased nearly $1,000, adjusted for inflation.

2. When Billy-bob Clinton was president, the unemployment rate fell more than three percentage points. Under dubya[McCain], the unemployment rate has risen from 3.9% to 5.7%.

3. In the Democrat Clinton era, the number of Americans living in poverty decreased by more than six million. Since dubya[McSAME] took office, five million more Americans are living in poverty.

4. Every American knows the cost of living for middle-class families has skyrocketed under dubya[McCain]. Over the last 7.5 years, the costs of prescription drugs, a college education, groceries and gasoline have increased dramatically. All told, families are paying about $4,000 more per year just to cover basic costs. That is way more than the typical inflation rate.

5. President Clinton [Democrat] turned a $290 billion DEFICIT run up by the Republican George Bush into a $236 Billion SURPLUS. This sound management strengthened the economy and left Americans better off as a result.

dubya[McCain]? He is going to leave a $482 BILLION DEFICIT! Hello? So much for Republican economy management-!! Heh heh! That fact alone is what is going to SINK McCain[Dubya]Palin[Cheney] this time. Bon voyage-!

6. Businesses were better off during the Democrat Clinton years too. For example, Wal-Mart's stock price rose over 300% during Clinton's presidency. While dubya[McCain] has been in office it has only increased 10%.....

Hello?

========

In any case, the real benefit of the coming Obama Administration will revolve around the fact that he will indeed have a Democratic congress to back him up.

And allow him to pack the courts with Progressives-

So much for your notion of turning the United States into a christian theocracy.

N!

[Tim Hancock]

Poor Normy.... someone better check on him when and if his savior loses.

[Zeke]

[SlowToady]

Normy, you don't really believe the implication behind any of what you posted, right?


......Right....?

[hardflex]

I believe China is already balking at buying our debt, Obama or not. I believe that's what prompted the Fanny/Freddie Bailout, to keep them buying our debt. It's projected that may cost 2.7 TRILLION DOLLARS!!!!

We're on the road to catastrophe already. Carmakers begging for 50 Billion. More Bank Failures. The Airlines are in line for a Bailout too. I heard a guy on Glenn Becks program forecast a TRILLION dollar Federal DEFICIT in 09. that's right 1 TRILLION!!! Nobody knows where it's gonna come from, they called it Monopoly Money. He also stated that if it happens there is an 'Inflation tax' that will make it up.

McCain has said he doesn't know much about economics.... Is that what we need right now?

These are the issues I think are important in the upcoming election. But no one talks about them... :-(

[CRH911S]

I believe China is already balking at buying our debt, Obama or not. I believe that's what prompted the Fanny/Freddie Bailout, to keep them buying our debt. It's projected that may cost 2.7 TRILLION DOLLARS!!!!

Let me understand this. The US taxpayer, under republican conservative, Pres. Bush, is footing the tab for the bailout; to prevent China from buying our debt? What a joke. Who's going to fund government operations for the next several months? Or even the next 20 years? Are we even collecting enough taxes to pay the interest on the debt?
What's really sad is that after all the huge deficit spending of the last 8 years what do we have to show for it? Our great grandchildren are in debt up to their eyeballs leads the list.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by CRH911S

Let me understand this. The US taxpayer, under republican conservative, Pres. Bush, is footing the tab for the bailout; to prevent China from buying our debt?

I don't think you understand it, or you mistyped. Why would we bail out Fannie and Freedie to MAKE CHINA STOP BUYING our debt? That makes no sense at all.

[kach22i]

USA 2008: The Great Depression
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/usa-2008-the-great-depression-803095.html

We knew things were bad on Wall Street, but on Main Street it may be worse. Startling official statistics show that as a new economic recession stalks the United States, a record number of Americans will shortly be depending on food stamps just to feed themselves and their families.

[Mo_Gearhead]

QUOTE: "America Is Screwed"
______________________

Easy solution.

Every evening on TV I see ads for companies that want to save me from my credit card debt (oh, wait ...I have none. Well, they want to save the rest of you.).

Quoting: "Do you know you have a RIGHT (constitutional?) to have your debt reduced by 20, 50 even 80%?"

Thus:
1. The Gov. calculates what EACH of us owes.
2. Sends us a bill on our Credit Cards.
3. We turn it over to these companies.

All is well again!

[hardflex]

This is a hallowed Wall Street Journal writer who predicted the Trillion dollar Deficit. It's an interesting segment in the show, I thought all might be interested. These are transcrips from CNN.com, Bold points are mine.

BECK: That was over a year ago. Pass the potato salad, America, because here`s "The Point" tonight.

Despite what this government says, this bailout, which could be turn out to be the largest in our country`s history, will cost every single household in America over $14,000. Congratulations. I hope you enjoyed it. Was it good for you? Let`s have a cigarette. How`s that for an election-year tax hike?

Here`s how I got there. When Secretary of the Treasury Hank Paulson announced the bailout yesterday, he said that the cost to the taxpayer -- and if I may quote -- is very difficult for anyone to know. Really? Good thing for you I speak fluent bull crap, so I can translate. May I try?

What Secretary Paulson should have said is that the cost is very difficult for anyone to admit, given that this is a presidential election year and it`s just eight weeks away. Don`t be fooled. Everything about this bailout is connected to the election in some way or another. In fact, the current plan is to actually just take over Freddie and Fannie, just temporarily, so the next president and Congress can decide what to do with them: either nationalize them -- hello Hugo Chavez -- or privatize. Hum. I wonder which way President Obama will go?

The truth is, the cost to the taxpayer isn`t difficult to find out. But when you want to keep America`s focus on buying homes and spending more money, you know, then throwing numbers around that end in the word trillion -- yes, with a "T", trillion -- isn`t the smartest approach. So America, here`s what you need to know tonight.

Fannie and Freddie weren`t just too big to fail. They were also too poorly managed to survive. And yet, instead of hearings, instead of investigations, instead of trials and jail time -- does Enron come to mind? --we`re bailing them out.

Hank Paulson was careful not to blame any of Fannie and Freddie`s executives. No, no, no. They have nothing to do with it. In fact, the CEOs are actually staying on to help with the transition, which I think is a little like having O.J. Simpson help the police find the real killer. I`ll have a lot more on the unbelievable parallels between these two and Enron tomorrow.

But right now I want to bring in somebody who doesn`t nearly have the resources of the federal government but was still somehow or another able to figure out exactly what this bailout is going to end up costing you. Don Rich is the vice president of the Philadelphia chapter of Business Economics.

Don, I want to start with this bubble chart. Can you please explain the bubble chart here and what it is? Just put it up on the screen.

HE SHOWS HERE A CHART OF THE CASE-SCHILLER INDEX

DON RICH, VICE PRESIDENT, PHILADELPHIA CHAPTER OF BUSINESS ECONOMICS: What the chart shows is the relationship of housing prices to the price of other goods, and why you see it return to a level of 100 is that people in general are only able to spend so much of their income on housing.

BECK: OK.

RICH: You`ll note that over long periods of time, it always returns to a hundred, which is why...

BECK: So wait a minute. You`re saying that that big line at the end is coming down, back down to a hundred?

RICH: It could go below 100, actually, either because housing prices fall that far or because the price of other goods rises, i.e. inflation, which is where the cost number comes from. It`s a combination of either higher taxes directly or indirectly through the inflation tax. That`s what people are talking about.

BECK: All right. So what does this mean on the cost, then, of this bailout, don?

RICH: Well, the federal government has said THAT it will back, to an unlimited extent, $5.4 trillion in mortgages and associated guarantees. Well, if you look at the index, that means the underlying assets, in the end, their real value is probably around $2.7 trillion.

The federal government either has to extract that much in income taxes over, say, a five to ten-year period or it has to raise the inflation rate to devalue other liabilities of the federal government or some combination of the two. But there`s no free lunch here. That $5.4 trillion is what is promised to remain constant in stated value, where the real -- where the real value of the asset is half that, at best. It might even be worse.

BECK: OK. So in other words -- in other words, we`re going to have to make up at least $2 trillion?

RICH: Well, I think when you look at it, $1.3 trillion is the absolute best-case scenario. And remember, that`s out of a $12 trillion economy over five years, but that is still way past what politicians are talking about.

BECK: OK.

RICH: As you said, they don`t want to talk about it.

BECK: All right. This is, you know, Wall Street went crazy today, and everybody is like, you know, "Hey, this is great." We are marching down the road of socialism so fast your head should spin, America.

And what -- what`s crazy about this is all the people who did this -- I don`t see any hearings. I don`t see anybody calling them out. I don`t see anything other than keeping them on. This is truly about politics and special favors to big business, big banks, and friends in the government, is it not?

RICH: Well, you can see the federal government did very little about this until Bear Stearns collapsed. And then all of a sudden, there`s all this concern in who they`re protecting, is like you say, powerful financiers on Wall Street who have special access to the Federal Reserve, who is the other villain of the piece. It`s not just Fannie and Freddie.

If you look at when the bubble started, it was created by excessively easy monetary policy, which is the hint of how they`re going to pay it off. If the federal government says we`re going to back these loans to an unlimited extent, that means a lot of higher taxes or more likely extended inflation or asset price instability over time. It`s just simple math.

BECK: All right. Don, thank you very much. We`ll talk to you again.

Now, let`s see if I got this right. We bailed out one major Wall Street firm in Bear Stearns. We have now two major mortgage firms. The next thing we need to bail out should be three.

Good news in the paper today. Three companies, the big three auto makers are more than happy to step up to the plate to fill the void.

So you got something again that is just too big to fail. Well, I hope we can all get employee pricing, you know, on a permanent basis, because the taxpayers will technically be owners of the companies, won`t they? And by the way, gang, if you`re in love with the government being, you know, in the mortgage and auto businesses, just wait, because they`re about to take over health care. Mark my words: they`re going to make a move for oil and energy, and the airlines are also too big to fail. It`s coming.

Steven Moore is the economics writer of the editorial section for "The Wall Street Journal." Steve, you and I have disagreed. I think about a year and a half ago you and I were disagreeing. You`re in my camp now, aren`t you, Steven?

[hardflex]

CONTINUED


STEVEN MOORE, ECONOMICS WRITER, "WALL STREET JOURNAL": You love to tell me "I told you so," don`t you?

BECK: I sure do, because you`re smarter than me, Steve, and I saw this. I`m a recovering alcoholic former deejay, and I saw this coming.

MOORE: Well, you have that advantage over me. You know, I`ve got to -- before we talk about these other bailouts, there is one question over the last 48 hours, as this bailout took shape, that no one in the media except for you, as far as I can see, has asked. How much is this going to cost? The Congressional Budget Office says, "Oh, we think maybe $25 billion."

BECK: No way.

MOORE: If your previous guess was right, it`s not $25 billion, not $250 billion, but potentially $2.5 trillion. So this is one of the biggest rescue plans ever.

BECK: Steve, put this into perspective. Nobody has any -- nobody has any idea what $2 trillion means. Put it into perspective.

MOORE: Well, a trillion dollars is a million, million dollars. So that`s -- that`s a pretty big number. And the thing is that most Americans cannot fathom a number like this.

But when we talk about these bailouts, Glenn, one thing to think about, you know, a lot of people who listen to your show, own and operate small businesses. When is the last time Washington bailed out a small business that got in trouble? It`s only these huge industries that have mega-lobbyists in Washington that get these gold-plated rescue plans.

BECK: OK. Now we`re not talking about -- with the big three, we`re not talking about an actual bailout. We`re talking about loans. But they are -- they`re guaranteed.

MOORE: What`s the difference?

BECK: No, no. Listen to me, I am with you on this, Steven. I mean, I know that the insurance for these loans, because it`ll equal $50 billion in federally guaranteed loans. Fifty billion dollars. Just the insurance -- you know we have to pay insurance when we get a house. Just the insurance is -- what is it, $7 billion, over the life of the loan?

MOORE: That`s right. And don`t forget, when they say, "We`re only giving to give loan guarantees to the big three auto companies, the housing crisis, all of these -- we didn`t give direct subsidies to the housing industry. It was loan guarantees. Doesn`t this sound familiar?

BECK: Yes.

MOORE: At some point those loan guarantees have to be repaid. And, by the way, Glenn, it is -- as I told you before, it`s not just the big three auto companies. Now there`s talk about maybe the airline industry is in trouble.

BECK: I know.

MOORE: United Airlines. There`s almost certainly going to be additional bank failures. Potentially one or two more Bear Stearns. Are we going to bail out them?

And then, of course, I go back to the first question I asked, Glenn. Where is the money going to come from? It`s almost like it`s Monopoly money.

BECK: Well, it`s going to be, soon. Steve, you and I -- you and I talked about this. When we first started talking about, you know, the economy, it was -- all of the financial institutions said, "Oh, no. This`ll be tops 200 -- $200 billion. That`s tops."

We`re now talking about one bailout being up in the neighborhood of $2 trillion. That`s just the bailouts that happened today. What is the end game here? How do you stop it ever?

MOORE: You used the word "socialism." I don`t know if I would go that far, but you`re pretty close. This is clearly the Europe model.

The reason the European models crashed and burned in the `80s and `90s is they did just this. Any time an industry was in trouble they would rush in and bail them out. So what they did was take money from their healthy companies and give it to the companies that were on their sick beds.

If we had this kind of mentality 50 years ago we`d be bailing out the telegraph companies, the stage coach companies, the Betamax producers, all of the companies that have -- I mean, creative destruction. It`s not such a terrible thing when a company goes out of business.

BECK: Yes. Look, here`s the -- here`s the thing, Steve. You know and I know that this is all favors to friends and Congress, and I`m doing a piece on it tomorrow on the radio. Congress is delaying almost everything they can until this next election, so they can have the votes that they need to barrel all these things through. This stuff is coming.

MOORE: Just to make your day, Glenn, I am predicting...

BECK: Yes.

MOORE: ... you heard it first on the Glenn Beck show, we could be facing a $1 trillion budget deficit in 2009. Nobody`s talking about that because we`re passing out this money as if it`s free. A trillion-dollar deficit!

BECK: All right. Thanks, Steven.