Question about Europe and driving habits.

[David]

I've never been to Europe, but lately I've been wondering: Since they pay about twice what we pay for fuel, do they have these crazy hyper-milers like we have now?

[Rikao4]

No,
also (Germany no cellphones)
if your left ,you get flashed..
MOVE over..dont care if your in a GT3..something is going faster than you ..MOVE,
it's changed..more traffic..
a those were the days..
Rika

[BReif61]

Originally Posted by Rikao4

also (Germany no cellphones)

How.... how does civilization not crumble?

[RPKESQ]

Yes, it is different. Mass transit actually works and is quite clean and reliable (except for the occansional strike). High speed trains (220 mph), great subways and bus service to the smallest villages. The taxes are what makes the gas so expensive, but in turn you get great roads, superb mass transit and drivers that are really tested before they are allowed to drive.
In many places a car is not require to live and function comfortably.

[Rick Lee]

I would gladly pay European gas prices to have driving here like they have there. It's truly a pleasure to drive in Germany. Everyone obeys the rules, maintains their lanes and lane discipline, no stupid radar traps on hwys., reasonable speed limits where necessary, red lights turn yellow before green to let you know it's coming, roads are impeccably maintained, signeage is excellent. It's just a joy. Ironically, plenty of Germans have told me they find it relaxing to drive in the U.S., especially out west because it's so much slower and less congested.

[Rikao4]

hard for me when I came back..it was 55..
I do 55 in parking lots...
55 felt like..get out and walk ..it's faster.

Rika

[Rick Lee]

Pretty sure Germany is the only place where you can still drive really fast. I think most of their neighbors have a 140 km/hr. max limit on hwys. and they are pretty strictly enforced. Still, I don't even mind just doing 140 km/hr +/- 10% when everyone else is driving like a professional. Sure, there are some hotheads on the roads there, but everyone knows the rules. If you're in the left lane and you see headlights behind you, you move over.

I was doing the all night drive from Klagenfurt to Frankfurt Main in a beater Peugot rental, probably crusiing at 160 km/hr. near the airport. I moved over to pass the guy in front of me. When I started to change lanes, there was nothing in the left left lane. When I got there, a 993's headlights had come out of the horizon and were on my rear bumper. I moved right over and he shot past me. Just beautiful. You never see that here.

[LakeCleElum]

Each country has their own driving culture and attitude towards speed. Speed limits are loosely enforced in France and Italy for example. Very rigidly enforced in Switzerland and Austria....Other than that, NEVER pass on the right on a muti-lane highway. Stay right except when passing and then get back over.

Autobahn traffic congestion on the whole west side of Germany will prevent much speed at all. You can be in 10 mile stop and go backups at times.

Some roundabouts can be 3 or 4 lanes wide. Make sure you are in the correct lane and the right spot or someone will pull out right in front of you.

Finding a parking stall, even in a small town, is always a challenge, expect to pay to park anywhere you stop.....

[Hugh R]

All of Europe, including England, stay out of the fast lane unless you're actively passing.

[MFAFF]

Driving over here is just as bad, fustrating, irritating and painful as over there...we just pay more for it.....

Seriously tho...

Generally in Euro the cars are smaller and more nimble.. fewer SUVs and pick ups. Your average grocery getting cna be a real funster....makes all the difference as its on these you start learning to drive.

Also on average roads are busier with higer speed limits.. you need to 'drive' the car a bit more, rather than cruise along, so even if people are just paying a bit more attention to what they are doing than the phone etc you can get to drive a bit faster.

Other than on some autobahns in Germany the speed limits are between 120 km/h and 140 km/h... enforcement on the freeways is returning more to officers than radar guns etc... but speed cameras elsewhere are pretty universal....and money making.

But there are still places to stretch a 911....

[BReif61]

Aren't there all sorts of ridiculous taxes in England, pertaining to driving? It seems like the hosts of Top Gear gripe about them every episode.

I thought I heard one about getting taxed for sitting in traffic?

[widgeon13]

The thing I enjoy about driving in Germany is that no one seems to pass on the right! I'm certain there is the exceptional idiot but very rare in my experience.

[MFAFF]

Taxes? What taxes?

Two taxes for every one....

1) Fuel tax... something obscene.....like 75% of the retail price of gas is tax.. so ouch.
2) Road tax. This covers your registration and its your 'right' to drive on the road.

But, here's the kicker...it depends on the car you drive..

So.. any car register or made before 01/01/73 this is £0..... (my 911 a 72 car...)
Then for cars registered between 01/01/73 and 01/03/01 is either £135 per year for small cars (like 1.4l and below) or £185/ year for everything else.

It all goes pear shaped after that with lots of C02 related bands which mean the real bad dogs pay up to £450 per year.

Other than that the 'taxes' are optional...for example in London there is a 'Congestion Charge' of £8 per day to drive into the centre of town and around the centre between 0630 and 1900 Mon-Friday...but public transport into the City is generally very good so driving is now an exception rather than the norm, plus the car parks have lowered (a bit) their rates to compensate...

Then you pay to park pretty much anywhere these days and in some places you need to pruchase a 'residents' parking permit' to park on the street near your house... don't laugh millions here live in the city with no off street parking space and near to work places etc where if this wasn't the case you would never get a space on the street.. this is often somehting like £40 per year.

So example the daily is a 1.4l VW...so its £165/ year tax plus a £40/ year parking permit...£205/ per year... we do somehting like 6,000 miles per year at on average 35mpg... that's 172 gallons (Imperial) per year... so about £650 in gas tax...so we're talking £855 per year in taxes.....or about 14p (30c) per mile.

Ok you need to add insurance but that is so dependent on individuals its really tough....

I think that for the quality of the roads we have in the UK its not too bad...

[livi]

Here I go again with my stupid questions:

Whats a hyper-miler?

On the subject, driving in Sweden is generally very relaxing. Lots of space and few speed traps.

[BReif61]

Originally Posted by livi

Here I go again with my stupid questions:

Whats a hyper-miler?

They're the people cruising at 55mph on the highway in their hybrids/econoboxes, pulsing and coasting, shutting off their engines at lights, not using AC, parking at the top of lots facing out of the spots, etc.

Basically if there is a trick to get 0.1mpg more, they're doing it.

[Rikao4]

Livi, some drive nude..
but when your fat..your fat..losing the thong does nothing..

Rika

[Jim727]

Driving in Europe is really interesting. Germany has fantastic roads well-maintained, as has been said. They tend to stay that way, too since they are about twice as thick as the roads here - built to be quality, not built to be cheap and fall apart. German drivers also know what they are doing and expect everyone else to be equally competent. When I lived there it cost over US$3,000 to get a first-time driver's license so the process was taken seriously. Cars have to be maintained and passed by the TUV for safety every couple of years. No crappy junkers on the road to contend with. Passing on the right is a ticket (a big one). Fuel is expensive, but efficient cars are available - the A4 1.9 turbo diesel we had for two weeks averaged 55mpg and cruised at 200kph with no problem.

All in all, driving in Europe is fun with beautiful scenery. About the only place I wouldn't want to drive again is inside the large cities of Italy, but there you just park the car and take public transport.

[Aurel]

One thing about costs: true, the gas prices are about twice as in the US, but the overall fuel economy of the cars is about double as well (a lot of 40+ mpg small diesel engines there), and people use more public transportation to get to work. Driving habits are also different because automatic gearboxes are a lot less common. This makes driving more active. In France, the higwhay speed limit is 130 km/h. I used to cruise at 160 km/h without worry of tickets before I left 10 years ago, but I think it has gotten more enforced since then.
High beam flashes mean get out of my way when you ride on the left lane. Strangely here it works the opposite way, people use high beam flashes to say please go in front of me (in NJ at least). I got a ticket from a speed camera last time I was in France. This is a novelty I detest, thanks God they don`t have them in NJ...

Aurel

[livi]

Thanks, Brad! No we don´t have them in Sweden.

Rika, ...we don´t have them either...well there is the odd blond in a rag top.

[svandamme]

actually, most countries outside Germany, it's 120 kph
France has 130 in good weather only

the real important part is , the level of police cracking down on speed
in France, these days, you have better odds at Russian Roulette, then speeding

Holland, speed camera's, Gatso's... track controle
gate's that take yer number plate , another one 5 miles down the road, timexdistance= your average speed, only way to beat it, is by finding another road, or taking off your numberplate :
don't try it unless you like to be pulled over
don't try fake plates either, these days there are electronic systems they have in van's, that do nothing else but checking plates for insurance, tax, theft controle

Belgium, bush terrorists ( cops on the central divider between bushes with a Multinova)

all have unmarked cars driving along with video surveilance they will book you aswell

Never be the fastest one in any lane, don't tailgate, overtake on the right
find a goon in front of you , and follow him from a distance... even more so at night... the flash will be visible

UK : white van's, no matter what speed you're doing, in what sports car: there will be a white Ford Transit , right behind you flashing his lights to overtake


Otherwise... Big city driving highway ringways, during rush hour, might be a challenge if you're used to US roads... Tjams, but inbetween, carmageddon... survival of the fittest... you hesitate, you don't move...

the more south you go, the worse the parking
try finding one car parked in Nice or Marseilles that ain't dinged and not in a showroom