It's dark out. Put your F#%@&! lights on!

[onewhippedpuppy]

I really don't give a rat's ass what the law says. And DasBoot, unless you have the traffic code memorized and follow every rule, you really don't have any place to be self-rightous.

I've been in torrential rain, heavy blowing snow, and fog where the only way other cars were visible was thanks to their hazard lights. No visible tail-lights, but the orange flashers were visible. In low visibility situations, being seen is the first step to not being hit.

As for a car stopped in the middle of the road, lets be realistic here. At least in KS, nobody drives with their hazard lights on unless the weather is extreme and visibility is low. In that case if you are stopped in the middle of the road, hazards or no, you're probably going to get hit. Self-preservation should dictate that you get the hell off of the road.

[Heel n Toe]

Originally Posted by DasBoot

I concur that flashers can be seen from a greater distance. Not disagreeing at all on that point. Emergency flashers signal to other drivers the vehicle is disabled and stopped in the roadway. Just as a red light means stop, a yellow light means proceed with caution and a green light means go.

However, it becomes dangerous when a person driving up behind a stopped vehicle inadvertently assumes the stopped vehicle is moving.

Why do you continue to blame the problem on the vehicle with the flashers on?

If the driver of a vehicle approaching from the rear is coming up so fast that he can't stop (or change lanes safely) for a vehicle going 5, 10, 25, 45, or zero with flashers on, there is going to be a problem, and the problem is because of the approaching vehicle... not the vehicle with the flashers on.

Tell us... truthfully... have you ever been "the approaching vehicle" in a case like this... or been affected by "the approaching vehicle" swerving into your lane?

As I think back to earlier in this thread, the fact that you made this statement...

Originally Posted by DasBoot

...the people driving with their flashers on are typically geezers or third-worlder's.

...makes me wonder if you were involved in one of these incidents and are erroneously trying to blame it on the vehicle using flashers.

Besides, that statement (about who typically drives with flashers on) is an insupportable statement.

Unless you think anecdotal evidence supports your premise.

[Z-man]

Ok Das Boot - I did some research. No, this is NOT a paper that will be graded, but if you make the statement that "in 49 of 50 states, it is illegal to use flashers when the vehicle is in motion," you'd better have some facts to back that statement.

Here's what I found in an article:

SourceIt’s illegal in some states to drive with your hazard lights on, but that can increase visibility.

Not definitive, but certainly not the 49 out of 50, as you suggest.

In my state, I found this in the NJ driver's manual:

Source
Spotlights: These types of lights should be used only in emergencies. This also
applies to emergency flashers (hazard lights)

No mention of having to be stopped to use the hazard lights.

From an article in Tennessee:

SourceVolunteer Fire Services First Responders use their hazard lights when responding to a call when in their own automobile.

Hmm - I suppose volunteers are above the law, or the use of hazards while driving isn't illegal...

From Massachusetts:

SourceEvery motor vehicle registered in the Commonwealth shall be equipped with a device to permit the front and rear directional signals to flash simultaneously," reads Massachusetts General Laws Chapter 90, Section 7. Emergency lights are "to be operated only when the vehicle is disabled or stopped in the event of emergency on or at the side of any way."

The Registry of Motor Vehicles driver's manual adds: "You can also use your emergency lights to warn drivers behind you that a traffic accident or major hazard lies ahead."

BTW: Here's Florida's (backward) law pertaining to using flashing lights while driving:

Florida Statute 316.2397:

Flashing lights are prohibited on vehicles except as a means of indicating a right or left turn, to change lanes, or to indicate that the vehicle is lawfully stopped or disabled upon the highway.

I tried to look up your state, OK, to see if there is any such law on the books. Couldn't find any. (And after spending about an hour searching through governmnent sites on the web, I really need to get back to work...)

So, Mr. DasBoot - I really thing your assumption that flashers are illegal in 49/50 states is a little far fetched. Perhaps you need to do a bit more research before you come up with such a statistic. (Incidentally, 54.3% of all stats are made up on the spot...)

Oh, and for your paper? You get an "F"

-Z-man.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by Z-man

(Incidentally, 54.3% of all stats are made up on the spot...)

Actually Z, it's 54.8%.

[teenerted1]

the complete quote from the source above
http://www.bottomlinesecrets.com/print.html?article_id=45605

"THICK FOG

Turn on your fog lights if you have them -- or your headlights if you don’t -- but not your high beams, which might cause glare. Reduce your speed enough that you could stop safely if something appears out of the fog in front of you, even if this means slowing to a crawl. Tap your brakes to flash your brake lights as you decelerate, warning drivers behind you that you are slowing. It’s illegal in some states to drive with your hazard lights on, but that can increase visibility.

If you cannot see more than a few car lengths ahead, pull over and wait for the fog to lift. Pull over as far as possible so that you don’t have to park on the shoulder and there is some distance between you and the road. Poor visibility could cause another vehicle to stray from its lane, creating danger for cars parked on the shoulder. Drive past the shoulder only if you are certain that the ground is level and solid enough to safely support your vehicle.

Turn on your hazard lights when you pull over, and remain inside your vehicle with your seat belt on.

Safest roadside waiting spot in a limited-visibility situation: Tucked behind a guardrail. Watch for the end of a stretch of guardrail, pull off the road, then back in behind the guardrail so that the metal barrier is between your vehicle and passing traffic.

DOWNPOUR RAIN

Downpours can severely limit visibility. See directions for driving in fog at left. In addition, wet roads reduce traction by about 30%, so reduce your speed by one-third even if visibility is good.

The first few minutes of a downpour are particularly dangerous if the region has not had rain in many days. The rain will cause oil that has collected on the road to float to the surface, creating a slick surface that further reduces traction. Drive with extreme caution, or pull over and wait 10 minutes for the oil to wash away.

Heavy rain also creates the potential for hydroplaning, in which a vehicle’s tires slide across the surface of a thin film of water, robbing the driver of both traction and steering. Replace worn tires with new ones to reduce the odds of hydroplaning. Apply the brakes very gently if your vehicle does hydroplane. This shifts the weight of the car forward onto its front tires, helping to return your traction and steering.

Important: Resist the urge to slam on the brakes, which could unbalance the car and make it even more difficult to control."

[Porsche_monkey]

Here it comes, "DO NOT TAP YOUR BRAKES. blah blah blah..."

[Heel n Toe]

teenerted1, all of that is good info... but if I get caught in a sudden, heavy downpour... or fog... or both... in a tunnel... not in a tunnel... next to a brushfire... in a snowstorm... or all of the above...

...I will be turning on my hazard flashers whether I am in SC, Florida, Texas, Virginia, Oregon, or any other state.

Whether I am moving or stopped. In the road or not.

I might even tap my brakes in addition to having my flashers on.

I might even lean on the horn and fart in your general direction.

I will chance a ticket.

I will gladly pay a fine if ticketed.




Because I would rather be seen than hit, and with flashers on, it's easier to be seen.

In other words, it's safer.



If there's a moron flying up behind me going faster than his ability to see, he's the one who will be causing the problem.

Not me.

[teenerted1]

can you see me now?

[Z-man]

Originally Posted by Heel n Toe

I might even lean on the horn and fart in your general direction.

43% of all Knights that say "Ni!" are offended by your comments.

However, 75% of all African swallows approve of this message.


This is getting rediculous. There are some states where the law states that it is illegal to use your flashers while a vehicle is moving. I suspect these are old, antiquated laws. Further, I would love to see someone produce evidence where such laws were upheld. On the other hand, it has been proven that the use of hazard lights in hazardous conditions, regardless of the state of motion of the vehicle in question, is helpful in preventing an accident or further unsafe conditions.

So go ahead and NOT use your flashers. ME? I'm going to replace my front headlights with strobe lights. That way, when I drive at night, it looks like everyone is stopped.

-Z-man.

[Jim Richards]

Don't forget to accessorize with a disco ball, Zoltan. It's the perfect complement to the 944's styling.

[imcarthur]

Originally Posted by Z-man

I'm going to replace my front headlights with strobe lights.

I always thought that a built-in RPG would be a great option. That way you could blow the lane hogs out of the way.

Ian

[911boost]

Where is the thread about the guy that replaced his rear center PORSCHE logo on his 964 with one of those red led illuminated panels that you can have say stuff (like in banks).

I would get in SO MUCH TROUBLE, if I had one of those, but it would be fun.

Bill

[imcarthur]

Originally Posted by BSiple

I would get in SO MUCH TROUBLE, if I had one of those, but it would be fun.

Agreed. I have fantasized about that for many years. But there's just too much firepower hidden in cars.

Ian

[masraum]

Originally Posted by imcarthur

I always thought that a built-in RPG would be a great option. That way you could blow the lane hogs out of the way.

Ian

That's a great fantasy that I share. One that's only slightly more realistic, would be to have bottle rockets mounted hidden somewhere in the front end with individual remote igniters. I'm thinking that the sound as they whistle past and explode in front of the car in front of you, or plink off of the rear end or rear window would get folks to move.

If nothing else, it would make me feel better.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by imcarthur

Agreed. I have fantasized about that for many years. But there's just too much firepower hidden in cars.

Ian

I'd like a forward facing model. Usually it would say

"Slower Traffic Keep Right! .... no, your other right."

[trekkor]

I spent some time 'interviewing' a California Highway Patrol.

As I stated, you are allowed to 'advise' other drivers of hazards including yourself when you are traveling at a reduced rate of speed. For example, if you are unable to maintain the posted speed limit while climbing a steep grade.


KT

[Tobra]

Originally Posted by DasBoot

If Brian couldn't see due to the heavy rain, he shouldn't have been driving (or driving at such a speed where he couldn't see ahead). THIS behavior causes the messy, deadly accidents you see every night on the news.

You obviously have never driven into a heavy down pour of rain, snow or hail.

Originally Posted by imcarthur

Illegal or not, there are 2 instances when you are crazed not to use 4 ways. Florida torrential downpours are certainly one that qualifies. A snow whiteout on a highway is another. And don't tell me I shouldn't keep driving because in those conditions you can't stop or pull over safely because you can't see the side of the road or exits. And you have no idea where all of the other traffic is. Proceeding slowly with 4 ways is the smart thing to do.

I will take the ticket & live, thank you.

Ian

I put my flashers on when I see traffic stopped ahead of me, until there is at least one car behind me.

Originally Posted by DasBoot

And what happens when you come upon a vehicle that is legitimately stopped (broken down) in the middle lane with their emergency flashers on?

Hasn't happen to you yet, has it?

I stopped

Originally Posted by DasBoot

Don't pay any attention to my rant. Just read the driver's manual in your state. They wouldn't make up this dumb law for no reason, correct?

That is a pretty big leap to make, if you ask me, there are plenty of utterly irrational laws

Originally Posted by trekkor

For as long as I can remember, loaded big rigs climbing a steep grade ALWAYS run with flashers on.

Interstate 80 is a heavily patrolled and traveled highway that sees all weather conditions.
I just can't see ALL of these slow rigs running flashers if it were unsafe or illegal.


KT

maybe you and I are only seeing the "Outlaw Truckers" I often run with my headlights on during the day, especially on that stretch between Vallejo and Infineon on 37

Sort of throws me off, the smoke billowing out the stacks with the flashers on, gives me vertigo because they look like they are standing still, because they have their flashers on and that means they must be stopped, despite all other visual evidence to the contrary

When they say "stopped or disabled" do you suppose the distinction is made because a disabled vehicle would be moving slowly, as opposed to being stopped?

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by Jim Richards

Don't forget to accessorize with a disco ball, Zoltan. It's the perfect complement to the 944's styling.

I would also suggest a stripper pole.

[Heel n Toe]

Originally Posted by teenerted1

can you see me now?

1) Beautiful black 914!

2) You call that thick fog? That's not thick. Thick would be if you couldn't see the car in front or his tail lights or flashers until you were less than 40 feet from him.

3) Don't ya hate rock slides?

[teenerted1]

Originally Posted by Heel n Toe

1) Beautiful black 914!

2) You call that thick fog? That's not thick. Thick would be if you couldn't see the car in front or his tail lights or flashers until you were less than 40 feet from him.

3) Don't ya hate rock slides?

1) yes it was, wow sold it year ago last week.
2) it was about that thick but we were in a train of 12-20 Porsches that day. and we were all used to driving together. no one uses HAZARDS when we drive in a gruppe. dont wanna attract extra attention if you know what i mean. the lack of a horizon made all but 2 copilots car sick. camera with open lens at low level really alters actuall conditions.
3) yes that was what the light is for. did that road again a few months ago. the road is now closed a few miles before that section now. road 99 to windy ridge http://www.fs.fed.us/gpnf/04maps/documents/gpnf-forest-vicinity-map-20080730_11x17.pdf