Jetta Wagon TDI purchase - anyone have a TDI?

don911 · don911's Garage

Thinking of buying a Jetta Wagon TDI, 5 spd. Anyone out there have or had a Jetta TDI that knows what issue there are? This one has 64K with new (recently) FI pump, H2O pump and timing belt.

Thanks,

osidak · 10-24-2008, 11:19 AM

yup - what year

I have done lots of timing belts on most of the various flavors

notfarnow · 10-24-2008, 11:21 AM

Great engines

The cars... well, you will get very polarized opinions. Some people love them, but some people get stuck with really, really bad lemons. Count me in the latter group. I owned NOTHING but VWs for years, but my last one was an absolute heartbreaker. Now I wouldn't touch one with a 10 foot pole attached to a 10 foot pole.

My MIL has an '06 Golf TDi with ~25k miles. If you drove that thing, you'd be shocked by the rattles and squeaks. It's been in & out of the shop since new, with all kinds of wacky electrical issues.

I wish VW would just make engines. It's be great to buy a Honda, Toyota, Subaru with a VW TDi engine.

175K911 · 10-24-2008, 12:09 PM

Have a local friend who runs his TDi Wagon in DE events and autox. May be slow on the straights, but he gets it around the track pretty well. In 3 years of DE's I don't think he's ever had a problem that's caused him to miss a run group

peppy · 10-24-2008, 01:19 PM

They are good cars, but require deep pockets or time to work on them. I put 40K mile a year on mine so the maintenance adds up.

Why a new IP at 64K?

I second the electrical problems, I was stopped by the POPO last night for a tail light not working. I tapped it and it came back on. That is the 3rd time I have been stopped for that.

GothingNC · 10-24-2008, 02:30 PM

I have an 04 TDI, no problems, 60,000 miles.

What year is the wagon?

04 & newer need 505.01 (now 505 or 507) spec oil to prevent damage to the cam shaft/injectors

osidak · 10-24-2008, 02:42 PM

as I mentioned before I have done in excess of 250 timing belts and numerous other work on TDI's

are they appliance car of a Honda or Toyota - No - most issues are electrical in nature and that is true of most German cars. The only real issue I had with my car (00 Jetta TDI) that just pissed me off were the windows. All 4 window regulators broke at least twice before they where made in a way that the issue was resolved.

I would stay away from PD TDI's (04.5 to 07) cars as I think the cam design is really poor and have seen numerous cases that back up that assertion.

I would also shy away from automatics and sun roof cars as well.

peppy · 10-24-2008, 03:38 PM

Dr. Osidak, is there an easy way to get the pulley off of the camshaft? What happens to the sun roof cars?

Don sorry to hijack.

osidak · 10-24-2008, 03:47 PM

there is a special puller that makes it really easy - though a small two jaw puller can be used (inner portion of the pulley).

the drive for the sun roofs have always been less than stellar and if not kept clean and lubed they will bind and break. about 50% of the time when they break they destroy the frame and then you have to replace the whole damn thing which means the head liner is coming down.

peppy · 10-24-2008, 03:54 PM

Thanks Dr. Osidak, I have only done three timing belts and have had a fit with that pulley. Honestly I have only removed it one time, my pullers kept slipping off.

don911 · don911's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by GothingNC

What year is the wagon?

Sorry forgot to include the year. It's a 2002 Jetta Wagon GLS, 5spd, heated leather seats, wood trim, etc.

Thanks for all the replies. As long as the motors are pretty bullet proof I can deal with some electrical gremlins.

peppy · 10-24-2008, 05:49 PM

Don I would think the 2002 is a pretty good model. I am still curious about the IP going out at 64K.

My brother just bought a 2001 jetta sedan with 230K miles and he paid $4000.

osidak · 10-24-2008, 07:59 PM

an IP at 64K means he was using bad bio-d, water in the fuel or the dealer was throwing parts at another issue.

almost kinda funny how many cars come to me from dealers that are just throwing parts at a problem

The 02 models are pretty strong cars. Have some one do a good check of the car and if possible have them hook up with vag-com and check to make sure 64K is the actual mileage.

Peppy - not sure where manson is but you are more than welcome to come down when I am doing a TB.

osidak · 10-24-2008, 08:02 PM

oh failed to mention

pull the timing belt cover and check to see if the belt has a fabric like surface - also check to see if the records for the timing belt show that the tensioner, 3 TB rollers and motor mount bolts (7 total) where changed as well.

peppy · 10-25-2008, 07:22 AM

Dr. Osidak, Manson is on the Va./Nc. border, Kerr Lake. I am about 2.5 hrs. north on I85.

Thanks for the info and the invite.

don911 · don911's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by osidak

oh failed to mention

pull the timing belt cover and check to see if the belt has a fabric like surface - also check to see if the records for the timing belt show that the tensioner, 3 TB rollers and motor mount bolts (7 total) where changed as well.

Thanks so much for all of the info. Is a fabric like surface good? If records show that these other items were not changed with the TB, is that something that needs to be done soon?

I got the VIN so I'm going to do a carfax this weekend.

again, thanks for all of the information.

osidak · 10-25-2008, 08:35 AM

the fabric texture belt is the new style which is what is referred to as the 80/100K mile belt

the original smooth rubber belt was good for 40K and then was bumped to 60K for the manual transmission cars for '01

the '02s came with the 80K belt. A larger bearing was used in one of the timing belt rollers around the 03 model year which bumped it to 100K

The belt was likely changed when the pump was done (though not really needed) so you could get away with not changing the rollers. The water pump should be done anytime you touch the belt as it is the same labor as the belt and I have seen way to many pumps failing or failed by the time the belt comes due.

That leaves the motor mount bolts - the bolts used by the factory are stretch bolts (4 on the actual mount) and 3 on the pendulum. While it is not 100% certain these bolts will fail I have seen 5 cases myself where they had the dealer do the work and not replace the bolts and I got the job of rehanging the engine (bolts usually shear even with the block or mount) and can damage the cam when it drops and the cam pulley makes contact with the engine mount on the chassis.

6 of those bolts are very easy to get to the 7th (on the pendulum is not so much fun until you learn the trick)

let me know if that needs to be done and I will fill you in. Oh and if a non VW place did the work make sure they used G12 coolant. G12 doesn’t play nice with most other coolants and chunks of blech form in the system.

Peppy – anytime you might want to come down let me know

don911 · don911's Garage

Some more info on the FI pump. The person was running bio fuel. He said the FI pump now has viton sealing and can use any fuel. ?? sound right? The water pump was also changed with the timing belt.

I did a carfax and all checked out. It's a two owner car with no accident history. It sounds like a well maintained car to me but I would still have it checked out if I decide to buy it. With regular unleaded prices compared to diesel it's making the TDI a little less desirable than a compact that gets mid 30s mpg.

osidak · 10-30-2008, 11:17 AM

the pump explanation is a little sketchy. The seals that would leak due to bio-d do not require a whole new pump. A person with modest skills could replace two of the three and the more adventurous person could replace the third and final.

The problems with bio-d - with commercially made fuels you have the issues of water as it is very hydroscopic and if they do not turn it over quick you usually get a healthy dose of water as well. This causes rust and lubrication issues as the pump in TDI is lubricated with fuel.

With home made fuels if not made correctly you can get some nasty deposits that build up in the pump and cause failures as well.

Viton seals would only solve fuel leakage issues.

As for the price difference - that is your call. I have yet to drive a high fuel mileage car that I felt was a suitable replacement for my TDI. Most feel anemic and very underpowered next to my TDI (hey it isn't a fire breather either) but stock they have lots of torque and with a simple chip it picks up about 25% in power and torque and once you learn to behave yourself you typically pick up a little less than 5% in fuel economy.

notfarnow · 10-30-2008, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by osidak

the pump explanation is a little sketchy. The seals that would leak due to bio-d do not require a whole new pump. A person with modest skills could replace two of the three and the more adventurous person could replace the third and final.

The problems with bio-d - with commercially made fuels you have the issues of water as it is very hydroscopic and if they do not turn it over quick you usually get a healthy dose of water as well. This causes rust and lubrication issues as the pump in TDI is lubricated with fuel.

With home made fuels if not made correctly you can get some nasty deposits that build up in the pump and cause failures as well.

+1

I've bought a couple VW engines that were DOA from bad biodiesel or veggie oil. One had scoring in the piston bore, the other had rust & scoring on the camplate. Both were caused by water in the fuel.