Cars in Europe??

[widgeon13]

Why do we have to get the cars over here that come with all the bells and whistles. This Audi rental that I have in Germany has fabrlc seats, nice supportive buckets, S body package and massive brakes, and 3.0 TDI. We have to take them the way they coe to the US and now that Mec and BMW at least are making cars in the US, why can't we order the way we want them. This Audi is fast as a scolded cat and it's a freakin diesel.

I'd buy on in a second in the states.

[Rikao4]

because people there drive,
we multi task..
you know sex and groceries & try on panties..
all are edible..
doesn't mean you should do all at the same time..

Rika

[rick-l]

This was a nice car. Did you have to get snow tires in October?

[Bill Douglas]

... Well by the time you have your American size seats and your mulitple cup holders, LOL, you might as well go the whole hog and wiegh it down with all the other extras and slow it down in the process.

[Normy]

-Did you know that many cars sold in Europe aren't allowed on US roads? They aren't considered "safe" by US regulators. You aren't allowed to drive a 2009 Citroen C5....despite the 6 airbags, front and rear crush zones, and all the padded dash and other surfaces.

Yet...there is a small company here in Fort Lauderdale [Star Electric Cars LLC] that is selling road-legal GOLF CARTS [many of which have body-kits that make them look like Hummers...] that have none of the following:

1. Front and rear "crush-zones".

2. ANY air bags...

3. ANY bumpers.

4. Windows.

5. Doors....

In short...NOTHING. You are driving a golf cart! Now; let's set up a small competition right here: Two cars are going to be rammed broad-side by identical Ford F-250 Crew Cab duelies.

"Ladies and gentlemen, in corner one, weighing in at 541 pounds....we have the Star Cars Hummer!"

::sound of applause::

"And in the other corner tonight, weighing in at 3156 pounds...we have the Peugeot/Citroen C5!"

And the bell goes ding. The 7800 pound F250 SMOKES the crap out of the awkward French diesel! 6 airbags inflate- the F250 obviously wins the battle~

Then the F250 SMOKES the crap out of the GOLF CART. Plastic goes everywhere...no airbags inflate. And the F250 wins this battle too~

-Uhmm...anyone care to prognosticate as to the condition of the people riding in each of the cars after the collisions?

YOUR good government at work! gm and Ford and Chrysler have lobbied successfully for US crash safety standards that require dozens of crashes. So many that companies like Peugeot/Citroen, who would only sell a small number of cars here anyway...stay away. The safety standards encoded in US law are strategically different from typical EU standards so that cars like these aren't allowed in the United States. Along with Skoda cars, which are just VW platforms [sold in the US] with different body work. Somehow I cannot understand how a differently-shaped headlight can effect how the passengers are protected during a collision with an F250, but that's just me. The US would require 30+ of the things to be destroyed from different angles, despite the fact that they are basically just Jetta's made outside of Prague.

And there are about two dozen VERY SAFE car lines not allowed here as well. WHY? Because gm has better lobbyists than VAG does, that's why! gm and Ford and Chrysler, and probably most of the Japanese manufacturers DON'T want the competition from cool cars like FIATs, Alfa-Romeos, Peugeots, Citroens, SEATs, Renaults, and a few others!

Oh yeah...those golf carts that Star Cars are selling are certainly safer! I drive a "gray market" 928, originally built for service in Austria [::sound of retching::], and though it has US doors and glass...the car is perfectly safe and I have driven it for 9.5 years and I'm still alive...

Hello?

N!

www.starelectriccars.com

[LakeCleElum]

UR right on the money.....In most of Europe, Australia and all of Asia, you can get a diesel Japanese P/U that seats 4+ adults and gets 35 MPG.....I'd buy one in a heartbeat, but NO, not available in the US......I've been to Europe twice, Australia twice and UK once; always rented turbo diesels and loved the torque and fuel mileage.....I recall once, fueling up at 850 miles even though the computer showed I had almost 200 miles left on the tank; only took like under 17 gallons....

[Hugh R]

It's because you/we dumb Americans want and accept a USA 911 Targa with 30 less hp than my ROW. "Yeah, I want the 911 with 30 less hp than the rest of the world gets! Yeah, that's the ticket". When I was in England about 15 years ago, I rented (IIRC) a 1.2 liter turbo diesel Peugeot station wagon that hauled a$$ and got great mileage.

[dd74]

You will never, ever get the performance of a diesel out of a similar type gasoline car. It explains why the Audi R8 turbodiesel is a darling of the car enthusiast world - 0-60 in 4 seconds and gets like 30 mpg.

Now, as to the original question - which is a good one - I believe Rika answered it the best way possible. In Europe, a car is a tool, they aren't luxury items in most cases. Volvo owners are said to own the same cars for 17 years. Mercedes drivers regularly put 750,000 miles on their cars.

The turbodiesel engine is the best asset of any new car sold there. The fuel is half the cost of gasoline as it's not taxed. In some countries, you get subsidies and tax breaks for buying a diesel engine car. I believe in London, they don't charge diesel owners to enter the city with their cars. This in no way dismisses the fact all diesels now have 0-level pollution levels, but more torque - the right kind of power - for regular driving - than any gasoline engine.

Why won't we get a stripped-out BMW, Audi or M-B? Because we're Americans. We put some sort of faux stamp of status on these cars, and quite frankly, few in Europe understand why. M-B are used as taxis, tow trucks, ambulances, delivery vans, etc. Most are manual transmissions, and have fake leather interiors.

This is why the editor of Diesel Power magazine, Dave Kennedy, doesn't believe luxury diesels will take off with mainstream owners (in the U.S.). #1: the stinky, oily, smoky history, which is no longer a part of today's diesels, and #2: the persistence of the manufacturers to offer them in only high-end models, like M-B, Audi and BMW, as it's figured no one in The States will drive a stripped out European car, particularly a diesel, simply as diesels are some sort of working class/trucker like redneck thing to many consumers.

No one I know wants to seriously consider a diesel because they think diesels are made for farmers and buses and long-haul drivers.

By my standard, diesel has always been a great resource for real-world drivers, and now performance drivers as well. If anything, because of their fuel mileage-to-power ratio inside the underpinnings of modern vehicle design and engineering, they're by far a better value than any gasoline-powered car.

[Hugh R]

Traditional diesels in the USA are filthy beasts. The dump tons of oxides of nitrogen and pm10 particulate. In El Aye, diesel exhaust from cars/trucks/ ships account for an astounding percentage like 50% of the lung cancer, notably around LAX and the harbor. Not saying they don't have there place in society, just saying they can't meet the emissions standards of gasoline vehicles.

[dd74]

Originally Posted by Hugh R

Traditional diesels in the USA are filthy beasts. The dump tons of oxides of nitrogen and pm10 particulate. In El Aye, diesel exhaust from cars/trucks/ ships account for an astounding percentage like 50% of the lung cancer, notably around LAX and the harbor. Not saying they don't have there place in society, just saying they can't meet the emissions standards of gasoline vehicles.

The new diesels that the original poster spoke of have been the traditional diesels in Europe for over a decade.

What you speak of around LAX and the harbor should have been decommissioned as many years ago.

[richde]

Originally Posted by Normy

-Did you know that many cars sold in Europe aren't allowed on US roads? They aren't considered "safe" by US regulators. You aren't allowed to drive a 2009 Citroen C5....despite the 6 airbags, front and rear crush zones, and all the padded dash and other surfaces.

Yet...there is a small company here in Fort Lauderdale [Star Electric Cars LLC] that is selling road-legal GOLF CARTS [many of which have body-kits that make them look like Hummers...] that have none of the following:

1. Front and rear "crush-zones".

2. ANY air bags...

3. ANY bumpers.

4. Windows.

5. Doors....

In short...NOTHING. You are driving a golf cart! Now; let's set up a small competition right here: Two cars are going to be rammed broad-side by identical Ford F-250 Crew Cab duelies.

"Ladies and gentlemen, in corner one, weighing in at 541 pounds....we have the Star Cars Hummer!"

::sound of applause::

"And in the other corner tonight, weighing in at 3156 pounds...we have the Peugeot/Citroen C5!"

And the bell goes ding. The 7800 pound F250 SMOKES the crap out of the awkward French diesel! 6 airbags inflate- the F250 obviously wins the battle~

Then the F250 SMOKES the crap out of the GOLF CART. Plastic goes everywhere...no airbags inflate. And the F250 wins this battle too~

-Uhmm...anyone care to prognosticate as to the condition of the people riding in each of the cars after the collisions?

YOUR good government at work! gm and Ford and Chrysler have lobbied successfully for US crash safety standards that require dozens of crashes. So many that companies like Peugeot/Citroen, who would only sell a small number of cars here anyway...stay away. The safety standards encoded in US law are strategically different from typical EU standards so that cars like these aren't allowed in the United States. Along with Skoda cars, which are just VW platforms [sold in the US] with different body work. Somehow I cannot understand how a differently-shaped headlight can effect how the passengers are protected during a collision with an F250, but that's just me. The US would require 30+ of the things to be destroyed from different angles, despite the fact that they are basically just Jetta's made outside of Prague.

And there are about two dozen VERY SAFE car lines not allowed here as well. WHY? Because gm has better lobbyists than VAG does, that's why! gm and Ford and Chrysler, and probably most of the Japanese manufacturers DON'T want the competition from cool cars like FIATs, Alfa-Romeos, Peugeots, Citroens, SEATs, Renaults, and a few others!

Oh yeah...those golf carts that Star Cars are selling are certainly safer! I drive a "gray market" 928, originally built for service in Austria [::sound of retching::], and though it has US doors and glass...the car is perfectly safe and I have driven it for 9.5 years and I'm still alive...

Hello?

N!

www.starelectriccars.com

That may, or may not be true to some extent, but tell me why Japanese cars are so much more expensive in Europe? Protectionism to preserve their substandard and expensive "cheap" cars?

Could small European cars compete with the Japanese brands when on equal footing?

[svandamme]

i doubt you could find the same model/configuration jap car in the US that you find in Europe

also, US sold jap cars are in many cases made in the USA
while few European sold Jap cars, are made in Europe, because we actually use the Japanese base model lines and configurations...at most with some different options

[widgeon13]

Stopping for lunch on the autobahn and this Audi is one fast diesel, no stink and while it's not a Porsche it has great pick-up at any speed. More later!

[svandamme]

So let's talk diesel
I've just broken in my Bmw 118





it weighs, about the same my 944 did
similar dimensions

136 hp and 300 nm torque , 221 ft/lbs

that's maybe less power then a 944, or 944s, but it has more torque then both
sure , it feels less brutal then the 944S, it doesn't rev as high
and top speed is about 20 kph lower
It's a 6 gearbox, feels a bit different on the power and shifting

but the chassis, is comparable, handling is superb, same precise feel as the 944, bit better even...
i've taken the 118 out on the country roads around my house, the ones part of the 24 hours of Ypres Rally, with TC off... The roads i used to go nuts on with the 944S
guess what... the 944S is being sold in parts on ebay as we speak... i have no more use for it... the 118 fully delivers...

Diesel engine sounds , outside yes
inside, none

mileage, 60mpg +
it has a diesel particle filter
and a kat... it doesn't smoke like a diesel, or smell like a diesel...

i like it very much

[Dottore]

Stijn: great d118! I rented one a few months ago and loved it.

This time in Europe we rented a bunch of different cars, but the ones that stood out were the following:

Chrysler 300C diesel wagon. This is nothing like the 300C you buy in the US. The suspension and steering are tight—like all the best things in life, and the big diesel pulls like a freight train. The car is built in the Euro–jeep plant in Graz, Austria, and fit and finish are superb. Great ride.



Next we had an Audi A5 with the 3.0 liter diesel engine and sport package. Very fast, very stable at speeds of 200kmh plus. This car was the perfect autobahn stormer.



In Como we rented the new Fiat 500 with the diesel option and this car was an absolute gem. It was the European car of the year last year and is built under contract at a plant in Poland. The fit and finish are outstanding. In fact a friend of mine is an engineer at Mercedes and they bought one of these cars and pulled it apart piece by piece in order to study the secrets of the superb quality on this small car. It was the perfect car for the small roads around the Italian lakes, and we had a hard time letting this one go.



Oh yes, we flew back via Montreal where we rented a Lumina for a couple of days. That experience said it all. That car is at least 40 years behind the European technology.

But the real news in Germany this year are the small high-efficiency gas engines that manufacturers are now turning out. The new Golf eg. has a 160hp four-pot that is both turbocharged and supercharged and gets well over 60mpg. These cars are the future, and they're already in showrooms over there.

[svandamme]

to get an idea of what the 118d does
wedged my digital camera under the headrest, in video mode...
and drove up to my niece... this is the road i take every morning... although i vary it , there's more ways then one to get to the highway
Dit botch the handbrake turn, did not commit , it's more fun when there's a bit more mud, it was to dry today



crap, Youtube still processing...

[coldstart]

Originally Posted by Dottore

Oh yes, we flew back via Montreal where we rented a Lumina for a couple of days. That experience said it all. That car is at least 40 years behind the European technology.

Chevrolet Luminas were manufactured between 1995 and 2001. The NEWEST one is almost 8 years old. You are comparing a brand new $40K Audi to an >8 year old ~$1K Lumina? While I am not a big fan of GM cars, it may be an unfair comparison.

[Dottore]

Originally Posted by coldstart

Chevrolet Luminas were manufactured between 1995 and 2001. The NEWEST one is almost 8 years old. You are comparing a brand new $40K Audi to an >8 year old ~$1K Lumina? While I am not a big fan of GM cars, it may be an unfair comparison.

My bad. It was a Malibu—not a Lumina. Sorry for the confusion—but the contrast was stark. Bucket of bolts, underpowered, plasticky interior, atrocious handling and, I suspect, lousy mileage—though we didn't have the car long enough to really test this. It was like driving a car from another planet entirely.

[svandamme]

vid is up

[Steve PH]

Originally Posted by svandamme

vid is up

No big fiery crash at the end? How disappointing!