Just a w.a.g. - ac vs. dc?

hmm... did I read the pump pulls 8 amps and to use a 15 amp fuse?

Isn't the pump designed to run on 12v marine battery as a bilge pump?

+1

The boat pump likely runs DC. The light transformer has no reason to be DC, unless I am missing something on outdoor lighting?

The low vibration you hear is likely 60 Hz. ;)

George

I'm with daepp (and aigel) as well. The pump requires 12V DC and the Malibu transformer puts out 12V AC.

Man, those MIT guys...
:)
Why a timer? Use a float switch on the bilge pump.
Will you get enough head pressure with that pump?
edit: just read the specs. 4 feet of lift? Is that enough? Specs are always optomistic...

Oh and yeah, DC pump AC xformer...

Just go buy a 120v sump pump with a float switch. toss it down there and hook a garden hose up to it. Plug it in and forget about it. check occasionally for water in event of pump death.

Best advice, right there. You'll get better lift and a purpose-built system.

Edit: Spec on the site is 4 feet of lift. That ain't much if your in the deep end of the pool.
A sump pump is probably less expensive too....It doesn't say 'marine' on it. :)

Lol. Just plug and play. At my grandmothers house there has to be a sump pump in the basement or the place floods quickly. I think they built her house in the water table no joke. We just put a pump in the sump hole hook it up to the adapter for pvc and then leave it and she checks it regularly and when the pump breaks she calls my dad and he goes and replaces it. She usually makes a pump last about 1.5yrs. but i doubt yours would run that long.

Hmm I'm not sure about that. Not a problem in our application. It should if it is sitting flat suck down to just almost dry. I wouldn't think that it would leave enough room for mosquitoes to breed

asketh and thou shall receive. Now you still will have to do the float switch thing but that will inherently leave some water, there is no way to make a float switch work and suck it plum dry.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/FloTec-Heavy-Duty-Water-Pump-AC-powered_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ72Q3a1205Q7c66 Q3a2Q7c65Q3a12Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318QQ_trksidZp328 6Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem160297025503QQitemZ16029702 5503QQptZBoatQ5fPartsQ5fAccessoriesQ5fGear#ht_500w t_0

You can always chisel a shallow sump in the low spot that fits the sump pump. No question will the pool need a refresh anyway once you fill it with water in a few years ...

George

The 4ft of lift refers to suction lift. If it could only pump against 4 ft of head, it'd be a pathetic pump with no flow.

The sump pump from Lowe's looks ideal. Not only does it have internal controls and use 120VAC, it probably will pass some solids. The Water Puppy pump is not designed for small debris.

Wayne,

I used whats called a condensate pump to get rid of the water from my dehumidifier in the basement. It consists of a small sump with a built in float valve.

Its about shoebox size, cost about $40.

Wayne glad to hear you have RECTIFIED the problem. . . I'm here all week. . . :)

Yes, the condensate pump should be ideal. They are used with the 'split' type A/C units. Should be what you want.

Do the sump - no need to reinvent the wheel. I'm pretty sure the one you are looking at will fit in the drain hole. If not there is one out there that will (I have an all black one that I use - it was pretty inexpensive.

Wayne, most pools are built with plugs at the bottom. My drains actually have a fitting at the bottom of the drain housing. You remove them so the pool won't float when emptied. Assuming you have have good drainage, opening the plugs should drain pool naturally.

Also, I would use a 110 pump without a float switch, and an electronic switch like this so you can pump to a lower level: http://www.plumbingsupply.com/sumpwatcher.html

Hopefully you didn't let the magic smoke out .......

Put a check valve on the discharge side if the pump doesn't have one.

Vince

Should also have a marine grade strainer at the intake, you can get a plastic or bronze one at West Marine, etc., otherwise debris etc will cause premature failure.

sears is your friend.

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/search_10153_12605?keyword=sump+pump&gobutton.x=16 &gobutton.y=7

Harbor Freight is cheaper buy you get what you pay for:

http://search.harborfreight.com/cpisearch/web/search.do?keyword=sump+pump

glad to help our host! Get rid of that 12 volt set-up before you shock yourself or let the smoke out of the wires.

ELECTRICAL THEORY OF SMOKE...BY JOSEPH LUCAS

Positive ground depends upon proper circuit functioning, the transmission of negative ions by retention of the visible spectral manifestation known as "smoke". Smoke is the thing that makes electrical circuits work; we know this to be true because every time one lets the smoke out of the electrical system, it stops working. This can be verified repeatedly through empirical testing.

When, for example, the smoke escapes from an electrical component (i.e., say, a Lucas voltage regulator), it will be observed that the component stops working. The function of the wire harness is to carry the smoke from one device to another; when the wire harness "springs a leak", and lets all the smoke out of the system, nothing works afterwards. Starter motors were frowned upon in British Automobiles for some time, largely because they consume large quantities of smoke, requiring very large wires.

It has been noted that Lucas components are possibly more prone to electrical leakage than Bosch or generic Japanese electrics. Experts point out that this is because Lucas is British and all things British leak. British engines leak oil, shock absorbers, hydraulic forks and disk brakes leak fluid, British tires leak air and the British defense establishment leaks secrets...so, naturally, British electronics leak smoke.

The Theory Explained through Discussion.

When wires smoke, how come the smoke is not the same color as the wire?

This is not completely true. When the smoke is in the wire, it is under pressure (called voltage). The pressure difference causes the color to change from the normal color we are used to. Not unlike the blood in our veins and arteries changing color due to the oxygen content. When the smoke escapes the wire and is exposed to air, the pressure is released, and the color reverts back to what we commonly recognize as smoke. The wire then changes to the color of the smoke that escaped.

I hope this helps you understand.


I would only question the last sentence of that description. It has been my experience that the wire turns a color directly opposite of the smoke.

Not always true, I think it must depend on the composition of the smoke in question.


I should have made it a little clearer; the color the wire becomes, is directly proportional to the escape velocity of the smoke. Higher velocities generate higher heat. This heat tends to burn the wire and affect the coloring. The statement was meant to be a generalization, indicating the fact that the color of the wire does in fact change. Sorry for the miscommunication.

I was speaking of electrical smoke which is generally white. The spent smoke casing generally assumes a color somewhat near black after the smoke leaves.

I can't stand it anymore! If, as you say, light bulbs suck up darkness and convert it to smoke which is transmitted (via wire) to a power source for recycling...why do car batteries go dead when lights are left on? Do car batteries (and flashlight batteries for that matter) have a limited amount of storage capability? Is it like a hard drive that gets so full that you have to double-space and then lose all data?

Now you're getting it.......

I thought you guys were smarter than this. Of course the battery stores the smoke. In fact it can store so much smoke that if you open the top and light a match, the resulting explosion can do serious damage. I'm sure you are aware that usually where there's smoke there's fire. If you connect the battery to a charger, the smoke is then returned to the wire (Remember, a light bulb wont work unless it is connected to a wire system) for the utility companies to use. Your hard drive analogy is a very good example.

Our hardware guys might be onto something in their quest for superior wiring. I have noticed the unique method of of series/parallel wiring the power strips on our systems seems to prevent the smoke from getting out of the wires. A "Smoke Loop" of sorts. In the case of the "smoked" workstation recently, you should notice that this was a conventional single power strip installation.

Since color is percieved by the cone shaped receptors in our eyes, and cones require more light that their rod shaped counterparts. Is the sky blue at night?

At night the process including contraction of the pupil is visual purple by which the eye adapts to conditions of increased illumination when facing 300 candle power redeflecting devices.

Since there is a spectrum of light that we as humans cannot see, I support the theory that everything is going up in smoke, we just can't see it. This may explain why the neighbors dog barks for no apparant reason.

I think your basic understanding of smoke systems is remarkable. However I find a flaw with your theory. The battery is a reusable storage device for smoke. therefore, one would assume that some sort of one way valve (we can call it a diode) should be needed to prevent pressure flooding back into the system while at rest. Unlike the A/C system, the smoke system is collecting darkness at the headlights and converting it to smoke. This causes the system to fill up. The battery can contain much higher pressures and volumes than the wires. If this pressure exceeds the capacity of the wire, it will cause a rupture as you described. The rupture can be controlled by a sacraficial device known as a fuse. But this still doesn't eliminate the problem. Perhaps a two way valve (zener diode) is used to allow a small amount of pressure to return to the system, and partially equalize. I find this theory unlikely though, due to the increase in the force required to start the pump (which is now under pressure) working again...

The smoke continues circulating through the system, due to the pressure differential in the battery (smoke pressure/vacuum reservoir). When the reservoir becomes depleted, the pressure simply equalizes everywhere in the system (similar to an A/C system when it's turned off) and stuff just wont work. Notice the relations: Work (W) = Force (F) x Distance (D); Force (F) = total difference in pressure (Dp) x Area (A). Therefore, the work done in a pressure system is: Dp x A x D. If the pressure differential (Dp) is reduced to zero then W = 0 x A x D = 0.

The smoke only escapes the wires when a path is created between the pressure differential areas (@ either the reservoir or the pump) that has too little restriction. When this happens, the smoke travels through the wires so fast that the friction between the smoke and the outer walls of the wiring heats the wires until they rupture. The smoke continues to escape until its pressure is equalized with the atmosphere, or until the conduit that provides the path between pressure areas is severed. When this happens, the sudden drop in pressure allows the wires to "collapse" slightly and, being soo hot, as the edges of the ruptures and severed ends touch, the material becomes fused, sealing the system and retaining the remaining smoke.

Don't forget, when the system is at rest, all the valves, (switches and relays) are closed, keeping the pressure areas separated. When restarting the pump, as long as everything is OK, the smoke pressure is equal on both sides of the pump and there is no net force on the pump when it begins operating again. Also, within the pump there are pressure/volume actuated one-way valves with restrictors built in, arranged in such a way that they keep excess smoke volume recirculating through an integral smoke loop, which maintains the pressure within manageable limits.

The excess smoke, created by the light/smoke converters (headlights and other darkness absorbing devices), is changed back to darkness and dissipated in small unit concentrations so its dark effect is not locally observed. The smoke pump impeller (stator), converts smoke into magnetic flux which does work on the engine. Some of the excess work energy is dissipated through the cooling system and exhaust in the form of heat, while the remaining work energy is converted back to smoke and distributed evenly in small concentrations as you drive. This maintains the total quantity of smoke in the system at an average that does not change over time.

laughing my friggin' butt off.........and I'm a Electrical Engineer..........PLUS REP to you sammy G

Poole Pump
 

Wayn, the pump you purchase is a great pump, but it wan't last long. It is a rubber impeller pump and every time the pump stops and the water drains back, the impeller dries out and at start up it will chew up the impeller a bit. If you want to use this pump, get a check valve or a sea strainer with check valve built in. that will keep the pump wet and the impeller will last. The problem of course is if the check Valve gets a bit of dirt in, it will leak back and the pump will be dry again.

LOL at the "Electrical Theory of Smoke."