Yep...the mini 14 "ranch rifle" is very popular with livestock ranchers...

I believe that ultimately, each person is directly responsible for the safety and defense of their home and family. Threats may come from criminals, or worse yet, the very government that is supposed to protect us. I consider an armed citizen to be the only barrier to tyranny.

I used to think this was a liberal/conservative or Democrat/Republican issue. It is not. It is a global corporate power VS the individual issue. Obama/McCain/Bush......the puppet strings all lead back to Wallstreet.

I guess I'm a nut job. But I'm OK with that. :)

Some of you may have guessed that I'm an enthusiastic shooter. My preferences run along the lines of 19th century arms - muzzle loaders, single shot breech loaders, lever actions, single action revolvers in both cap'n'ball and cartridge persuasions. One of my favorite shooting related quotes comes from Steve Garbe: "smokeless powder is a passing fad".

I really have no interest whatsoever in "black guns". Their plastic stocks, matte metal finishes, and whimpy little calibers hold no appeal. Give me charcoal blueing, color case hardening, and real walnut. Finish up with any caliber that starts with a "4", shoots a cast lead bullet, and preferably used black powder, and you'll get my attention. The new military stuff just lacks soul, at least to me.

That said, I do have fun shooting them. I will never question or begrudge anyone's right to own them. Many, many people enjoy just playing with them. Match shooting, hunting, plinking, or what have you. It's all good. No one should be able to decide for them if it is appropriate. Especially based on the mere appearance of the gun.

They do, as a side note, take the attention off of us lever gun guys. Most folks vastly underestimate the effectiveness of a good man with a lever gun, even when put up against a good man with a semi-auto. The lever gun has many advantages, chief of which is that it never has to be taken out of action to reload. It can be "topped off" without disabling it. No magazine to remove; you just stuff more in the side of it as you use them up. Anytime you get a minute, or a break in the "festivities". They can chamber more powerful cartridges, can be shorter and lighter, have at least equal if not better sights available, etc. But the biggest advantage is that they are "under the radar". Great grandpa's old thutty thutty will be about the last long gun the hand-wringing ninnies will come for. After all, John Wayne, Chuck Connors, and other used them. They were the "good guys"...

Amen to that.

+1

Spraying lead is not the goal. Delivering a killing shot to the target is the goal. Moreover, I think folks would suprised at how quickly you can cycle a lever/bolt action gun and get off a second shot.

......but I will stick with my AK when the zombies attack, thanks.....

You must have a BIG house:)

Yup. Make every one count. I think the "black rifles" encourage a spray'n'pray approach. I went shooting once with an old shooting buddy and his new neighbor. New neighbor was a military arms enthusiast, and my buddy had just acquired his first AR15 (why, I don't know - we share similar gun interests). New neighbor had to try it, being the expert he was.

So, once at the shooting spot, he takes hold of the AR15 and draws down on about a dozen beer cans we had set up at about 100 yards. Blap-blap-blap-blap-blap-blap-hit-blap-blap-blap-blap-hit-blap-blap-blap-blap-hit-blap-blap-blap. "It 'follows' well." as he hands it back to my slack-jawed buddy. 20 rounds, three hits, and this guy was happy as could be. "Follows well"???? Huh?

I unlimbered my Marlin '94 with 13 rounds in the tube and ran out of beer cans before I ran out of bullets. Our hit ratios were almost exactly reversed. "You shoot too slow; you would never survive." "Survive what? They're not shooting back..." Different perspectives, I guess.

look up a concept called "suppressive fire".


i would love to have the luxury of being in a one shot one kill situation. but sometimes it's enough to spew some lead at the guy to keep his head down while you move to a better position.


don't currently own one. an M14 is on my wish list. prices are insane right now. i have some pretty neat toys. but was in los angeles during the riots. and really felt the lack of a proper assault rifle.

It is absolutely true that semi-auto black guns seem to encourage rapid fire.

My son and I spend about an hour sighting in my Varminter last week. I changed the scope position and wanted to be sure I was dialed in. We shot at two hundred yards.

In the hour we shot 20 rounds...got everything the way we wanted.

Then it was happy time. We moved to a hundred yards and joyously tried to shot the cans and pine cones as fast as we could.

Peels of laughter.

You can do both, with the same gun.:)

I'm coming to your house when the SHTF.

wow i thought i was the only juan, with a few firearms. actually this is tame and rick lee can attest to that.

why do i own the guns i do..........................

becuz when the SHTF...................NOJUAN WILL BE ABLE TO BOTHER ME IN ANYWAY SHAPE OR FORM FROM ANYWHERE CLOSER THAN 1200 METERS!

i subscribe to the ATT train of thought.............."REACH OUT AND TOUCH SOMEJUAN! iron sited or scoped anyday/anynight/rain/snow/dust/wind!


overwhelming superior firepower will always win, as will old age and treachery! SIMPLE!

p.s. why in the hell would anyone EVER want to engage CQB?????? think about it!!!!

kind of a NO BRAINER!

"a buddy bought ten chinese made AK47 clones complete with tripods and bayonets still packed in grease for $60 or so apiece"

The buddy was getting better deals than I was. I was buying SKS's in volume in the early '90's, the cheapest was $70. I did order a few used ones for less. MAK90's (AK's) were $140 in the same era. I don't know any model that came with a tripod, some came with a bipod but had a heavier/longer barrell.
Jim

Briefly owned a Marlin lever gun; .35 Remington w/ a cheap scope. that gun was quite fun (and expensive) to shoot. BIG arse bullets in that thing. beautiful gun too w/ a very nice action. lots of blued steel and heavy bits.


Seahawk what do you give up in 'SHTF'ability with a heavy barrel model like yours?

I picked up a Steyr 8mm the other day for dirt cheap - $69 out the door. Couldn't pass it up.

Dude, get a freaking grip. You live in Los Angeles, not Basra.

I always find this argument amusing. If the government ever succeeded in banning guns, the net result would be more people would own more guns and some folks here would get to carry out their deepest fantasies.

I grew up in the country in CT and MN. We took gun safety courses, I had my first shotgun at age 10, grandfather's 30-30 at 14, we went hunting, we had great dinners with neighbors, we cleaned our guns religiously. We never talked about them. We never handled them. When they weren't in use, they were away, completely away, as a reverence for their potency.

I appreciate collecting rare and beautiful old guns. There's really something there. But I have to say, people so enamored with just guns bothers me. There's just something not right about it.

From another post, but it could be appropriate.

Sigmund Freud: "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."
("General Introduction to Psychoanalysis," S. Freud)

I'd still rather have a good quality 22LR with a nice scope and a couple of good high-cap mags than an AR-15. I found the AR that I fired to be too heavy, too cumbersome, and too slow to sight vs almost any 22LR I've fired. I guess maybe the .223 makes groundhogs explode, instead of just killing them??

EBRs seem like a novelty to me, vs. an effective daily weapon.

Plenty of room here, great views:)

In rural areas like mine, should the SHTF it's a long drive and everybody can shoot.