Have you ever beaten a red light or speed camera ticket?

[Rick Lee]

Due to declining revenue, AZ has started putting cameras everywhere. You get a 10 mph buffer for the speed cameras and I don't know the rule on red lights. There's one intersection I use a few times a month where, if I'm the very first car at the line and floor it as soon as it turns green, I cannot get through it before it turns red. Luckily, there's no camera there yet. The speed cameras cause panic braking on the highway, which is just far more dangerous than anyone (usually everyone) doing 80 in a 65 zone. Today my wife slowed down for a camera and another car shot past her, triggering the flash. I wonder if they'll get her car or the other guy's. I've had to go through red lights on my bike when it's run on a ground sensor and there are no other cars anywhere. My bike with me on it does not weigh nearly enough to trigger the light. So, if there's no one around, I go. But I wouldn't do this where there are cameras.

Anyway, I hear you can request a "verified complaint" and will end up uncontested when you get to court. Other means of beating them are to ignore them and also dodge the summons servers for 120 days and they go away. Seems to me we used to have a right to face our accusers in court and I've beaten more than one ticket by disputing a cop's version of events in front of the judge. How does this verified complaint thing work?

[HardDrive]

They installed red light cameras at a main intersection close to my house. Part of the intersection borders a massive 'green space' owned by the University of Washington. Plenty of tree cover, and it runs almost all the way to my house, a miles away.

I wonder if the sound of my .30-06 poping those cameras would wake anyone up? Nawwww......

[Rick Lee]

I wouldn't use something as loud as a 30-06 unless you want a whole host of other charges in addition to breaking the camera. If I had any idea what I was doing, I'd use a .22 with a homemade suppressor. But I digress. There have been some cameras here disabled. And I'd like to assist. But they are in very bad areas for pedestrians or for pulling over.

[the]

Red light cameras are questionable, but speed trap cameras have the potential to be really ridiculous.

[Noah930]

Don't have an answer to your original question. And I don't profess to know the law in AZ. But regarding the running of red lights on a motorcycle: often times there's a provision that you may legally run a red light if you believe the traffic signal to be malfunctioning and it is safe to do so. If I'm sitting at a light for 5 minutes and it doesn't change, or if the light goes through more than one cycle and I'm still stuck in the left-turn lane, I'm going.

[mikester]

What about slowing down?

I HATE this trend towards camera enforcement. So far in LA the usage is light and I avoid the intersections if I can. If they are setup properly and the lights are timed correctly it is hard to argue them but overall I would rather have an officer giving me a ticket rather than a robot that is programmed. I've done some programming, computers are far more fallible than an officer's judgment in my opinion. Plus, with the officer you can actually fight the ticket.

You can attempt to fight a camera ticket but they are difficult to beat. Usually they are beat on technicalities like the photo image of the driver not being clear.

Do some reading here - mostly california stuff but still...

http://www.highwayrobbery.net/redlightcamsdocsHawthMain.html

For me, I'm so tired of stupid tickets that I have slowed down and tend not to speed nearly as much as I used to. It's a pain for other drivers who want to speed but you know what - those guys can take a f'ing hike. Enforcement of speeding laws is so spotty on the roads that you can never tell when you will or won't get hit. Since I've stopped speeding I've stopped getting tickets. I don't hog up that fast lane though I do use the carpool lane. If you're trying to do 80 behind me in the car pool lane you are quite SOL. I'll be doing the speed limit.

I really wish they would do a major crack down on freeway speeding in California.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by mikester

What about slowing down?

How about the state not using these as revenue raisers and then lowering the speed limit right where they place the cameras just to get more tickets? That's how the do it here. Speed limit is 65 or 75 and where they decide to place a camera, they lower it to 55 or even 45, though the road is no different from where the speed limit is higher. If speed were the major cause of accidents, I could deal with the cameras. But it's the cell phones, texting and left lane squatters who cause most accidents here and nothing is done about them....because it's easier to raise money from speed cameras than making the roads safer with old fashioned traffic stops.

[dd74]

Originally Posted by mikester

What about slowing down?

+1.

If you want to speed, find a race track.

With the way people misbehave in traffic, and the amount of enforcement on the sidelines, you need to have every defense available as a driver. Much of that is driving as close to the speed limit as possible.

[mikester]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

How about the state not using these as revenue raisers and then lowering the speed limit right where they place the cameras just to get more tickets? That's how the do it here. Speed limit is 65 or 75 and where they decide to place a camera, they lower it to 55 or even 45, though the road is no different from where the speed limit is higher. If speed were the major cause of accidents, I could deal with the cameras. But it's the cell phones, texting and left lane squatters who cause most accidents here and nothing is done about them....because it's easier to raise money from speed cameras than making the roads safer with old fashioned traffic stops.

I agree 100% but my statement still stands.

[charleskieffner]

avoiding the process server is easy if ya live out of state. living here is a different story. first all process servers are armed. second they drive undercover vehicles. third they are like hunters..........ie. they stalk their game. meaning he/she will locate your house and watch what vehicles come and go. they will verify plates.

then when yer thinking life is great, sitting on yer arse in yer skivvies drinking a cold juan, while watching the history channal..........................

THEY WILL POUNCE LIKE A MTN LION! and ring yer door bell and SURPRISE SURPRISE(imagine gomer pyle) TAG YER "IT "THEY HAVE SERVED YOU!

ask me how i know.................when i was served divorce papers 10 yrs ago i played hide and seek with them knowing that everyday he looked for me it was costing my soon to be EX BIG BUCKS!

this went on for over a week! hahahahahaha

process servers get lil star next to name when they TAG YOU! imagine giant "IN" basket and the more they serve..........THE MORE STARS THEY GET NEXT TO NAME!

[legion]

When I had my F150 I used to worry about red light cameras.

The truck weighed 6,000 lbs. and had inadequate brakes. If I was on a 45 mph road doing 45 mph and within 100 feet of the intersection and the light turned yellow, the three-seconds of yellow were not adequate to stop the truck. I tried. I would end up in the middle of the intersection--which is more dangerous IMO. I got in to the habit of flooring it when the light turned yellow in that truck, and still often didn't make it (it had an anemic V6).

What was I supposed to do? Block the intersection or blow the red light?

[Scuba Steve]

A coworker beat two of them in Lynnwood (WA). He picked up a couple for not stopping while going right on red and when he went in to see the judge it turned out they didn't have video and therefore had no idea if he'd actually stopped or not.

[Mothy]

Down here in Australia, especially NSW, they use red light and speed cameras a lot.

All are in locations which have previously shown to be accident hot spots. All of them are signposted before you get to them. The speed cameras have a minimum of 3 BIG warning signs before you get to them, so if you get caught its you own dumb fault!!

To counter the 'revenue raising' argument, they have done a couple of things - signposting is one, so they are not hidden. The other thing is to have more installations than cameras. So when the govt installed about 40 more red light camera's, they didn't buy any more camera units - just the posts and the mounting kits. They then move the camera's around the various installations.

Since I don't know which ones are 'armed' I treat them all as live - but the Gov't only has the same number of 'revenue raising devises' (cameras) as they always did - so they are not raising any more money and can argue that they are safety devices.

FYI, our red light cameras take two shots - one when you enter the intersection on the red signal and another a second later. If it shows that you continued on through the intersection, they send you the ticket. However if you tried to stop but couldn't quite do it before entering the intersection, the second shot shows your car very close to the position in the first shot - and they don't send you the ticket.

Tim

[Gogar]

Here in Denver, the speed camera is inside a Chevy Astro van, and they park it on the shoulder in random spots. They are required by law to put a "warning" sign in the 1/4 mile or so before the van, that says "RADAR ENFORCEMENT AHEAD."

Someday I'm going to blow by one on my bike 3 or four times in a row with no liscence plate on, finger in the air. There is an officer inside the van, though, so he can call for a cruiser, so I'm not sure on how good an idea I have there.

[Rick Lee]

We have the camera vans too, but they're easy to defeat, since they use radar. However, they do not use warning signs for the vans. They'll hide out in the middle of nowhere, no warning. I was out in the desert, doing about 85-90 in a 65 zone, where they shouldn't even have a speed limit and my detector started chirping. I slammed the brakes, another car passed me like I was standing still and then I saw a bunch of flashes. They nabbed him instead of me. I love radar detectors.

[charleskieffner]

Originally Posted by Gogar

Here in Denver, the speed camera is inside a Chevy Astro van, and they park it on the shoulder in random spots. They are required by law to put a "warning" sign in the 1/4 mile or so before the van, that says "RADAR ENFORCEMENT AHEAD."

Someday I'm going to blow by one on my bike 3 or four times in a row with no liscence plate on, finger in the air. There is an officer inside the van, though, so he can call for a cruiser, so I'm not sure on how good an idea I have there.

it would be much more efficient if you were to ride up to van..............break his radio antenna's off, spray paint all his windows and then pee on his windshield!

this would insure all of us are safe from these dastardly cameras on that particular road in colorado, it would be nice of someone to film this for you tube and its historical value, but most important i would hope you wear and really damn goood pair of running shoes!

[Rick Lee]

Charles, I think I could beat the process servers. I never answer my front door for anyone unless I see the UPS truck out front. Too many salesmen and proselytizers. I can get in my car in the garage, open the garage door and drive out. The only way they could get me is while taking the garbage to the curb late at night. I don't think they'd make more than three attempts anyway.

[charleskieffner]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

Charles, I think I could beat the process servers. I never answer my front door for anyone unless I see the UPS truck out front. Too many salesmen and proselytizers. I can get in my car in the garage, open the garage door and drive out. The only way they could get me is while taking the garbage to the curb late at night. I don't think they'd make more than three attempts anyway.

wear good running shoes. somewhere i saw had a map of all present cameras and all future locations. cant find it but yes they are a PITA and i went thru scads of new ones on my way to PIR for the HSR vintage races saturday. pissed me off big time how many there are now.

thank our democratic quack governor janet "I WANNA BE SOMETHING BIG IN WASH D.C." napolitano for these damn cameras SOON TO BE EMPLACED ACROSS THE STATE!

BASTIDS!

[cgarr]

A good shot with a pellet gun should take out the lens?

Or better yet, paintball!

[Rick Lee]

I believe our governor-to-be is against the cameras and might remove some of them. The new Escort 9500i lets you program in the camera locations, since they don't use radar, and then have it alert you when you get near one.