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Eric Coffey 11-23-2008 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile (Post 4319934)
One stands to lose very little by avoiding dealing with them and can stand to save an awful lot of "deadweight" money wasted, IMHO.

As a buyer, one stands to GAIN very little by avoiding a (good) agent.
You may think they are overpaid, but on my last deal, I was able to successfully negotiate $40k MORE off of an already low-ball offer that the buyer would have never even tried for. It wasn't just a matter of asking either. A lot of back and forth, market research, substantiation letters, contract structuring, multiple addendums, etc. were involved. The fact that I had a report and previous transactions with the seller/bank (Countrywide REO) didn't hurt either. The "value" of which significantly eclipsed what I was paid.

Most folks don't have the ability to articulate/negoiciate with a seller, especially REO departments on bank-owned homes, which are becoming the majority of transactions these days. Helping people not get screwed (or overlook something) on their loan, and weeding out junk fees at the title co. is always a plus as well. In reality, very few buyers can even interpret the very first summary page (Hud1) of their closing papers.

There is also the issue of protection. Not using an agent is akin to representing yourself in court. Real estate is one of the most litigious industries out there and if you go in uninformed, you may very well get burned (on either side of a transaction). Ignorance is not an excuse here. That is why we carry E&O insurance, and have to take several continuing education classes (like contract law) each year to keep our licenses current.

Regarding "value added" services, it's all about perspective.
have horses? I can tell you where to board them.
have kids? I can tell you which school districts to consider.
Need a good accountant, attorney, doctor, home inspector, contractor, staging co, etc.? I can refer them.
Want to know what the possible ramifications/impacts are for encroachments,easements, or zoning issues on a specific piece of land? Call me.
Want to know what is proposed for that vacant land near a house you are considering? I can tell you.

I could go on, but I think you get the point that a good agent can/does provide much more than just email and a lockbox key. Granted, you can probably find out most of that stuff on your own, but only if you are savvy enough, and only if you take the time/effort. A lot of folks use an agent that is dialed in to a specific area so they don't have to do all the homework, and see it as one-stop shopping.

So, all that combined with the fact that a buyer PAYS NOTHING out of pocket for the service doesn't make any sense to you? :confused:
Quote:

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile (Post 4320558)
Anyway, there are lots of FSBO listings these days with more coming online every day. But I digress...

You may want to look at the stats on how many of those FSBO's end up with at least one agent in the mix. That is because generally, sellers have no clue how to properly market a property, and buyers (especially Relo/out of state) have no clue on the what/where/when/how either.

As a FSBO seller, do you really think that listing your home in the paper and sticking it on a few FSBO websites is going to maximize your exposure?

For example: when our co. takes a listing, it not only hits the MLS, but sellers also get the following exposure:
Enhanced listing on Realtor.com.
High-end virtual Tour (including interactive slide show photos/info on large flat screens in every one of our offices across the globe).
Realtor tours.
e-flyers and touts on several Agency intranets.
Featured listing on: my website, the local company website, our main International site (sothebysrealty.com if you are curious), luxuryrealestate.com Regents.com, every other agent/broker website that has integrated MLS, zillow, Trulia, the Wall ST Journal, NY Times Magazine, our own Sotheby's Preview and Auction magazines, etc. etc. etc.

Not to mention our brand is advertised extensively in the DuPont Registry, The Robb Report (including Collections and Vacation Homes), Architectural Digest, Unique Homes, Wine Spectator, Forbes, Luxury Living, Four Seasons, Gourmet, and several other travel/leisure/golf publications.

In other words, you would go broke trying to achieve the same exposure and "reach" on your own IMO.

turbo6bar 11-23-2008 02:27 PM

PoP, tender a buyer's agent. Contrary to opinion before, you will have to pay them a fee, but they will work in your best interest. There is no guarantee a listing agent or selling agent will work in your interest.

Rick Lee, nothing you presented would preclude working without a realtor. You just need an inspector/construction guru who knows their ass from a hole in the ground and a quality closing attorney/title company. I believe it is easier to find competent inspectors/attorneys than realtors, so that's why I make that recommendation.

slak, I would not recommend going alone for this first house. If you already knew the game, then joust with the listing agent. You really need good people from all angles (honest lender/broker, competent realtor (good luck), and a good closing attorney). There are so many people out there looking for a quick buck they aren't averse to screwing your 10 ways to Sunday. Fortunately, the collapsing housing market has culled the herd down to the real players. Can you network with others in your area for recommendations?

Rick Lee 11-23-2008 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Coffey (Post 4320867)
In reality, very few buyers can even interpret the very first summary page (Hud1) of their closing papers.

Jeff, this is the test you need to pass before you decide to not deal with a realtor. If you can look at a HUD-1 and understand it all in less than 30 seconds, I'd say you're good to go it alone. Anyone who has worked in the biz can do this, not too many who haven't can. If you don't understand a single line of it, and most of those lines contain numbers in the four or more digits), you need help. If you go it alone, you'll see your HUD-1 for the first time the day of closing when the loan officer or title company calls and tells you how much to go get a cashier's check for and bring to the table. If you're lucky, your loan officer will be very good and your Good Faith Estimate will be within $250 of actual cash to close. And the first explanation you'll get for your HUD-1 will be at the settlement table by the atty. you probably have never met before and who does this stuff in his sleep. I've seen settlements blow up before, one almost turned into a fist fight at the table. How are you gonna make an argument if your HUD-1 is a few thousand dollars off from your GFE?

I'm not syaing you can't do this on your own. But be ready.

Rick Lee 11-23-2008 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbo6bar (Post 4320887)
Rick Lee, nothing you presented would preclude working without a realtor. You just need an inspector/construction guru who knows their ass from a hole in the ground and a quality closing attorney/title company. I believe it is easier to find competent inspectors/attorneys than realtors, so that's why I make that recommendation.

Fair enough. It's a good idea to enlist that kind of help, even if you do work with an agent. I'm just saying it's some legwork. FWIW, on my first house my realtor was in cahoots with the home inspector and they both kept quiet on the polybutalene pipes, which were a major issue at that time in that area, but which I had not read about in my otherwise pretty lengthy research. Well, one leak and one burst later ($5k in repairs on that one), which, of course, happened after the class action claim deadline had expired, I coughed up $4400 to have them all replaced with copper. When I sold that place, the survey said my fence was 1' onto the neighbor's property, though I had never touched it and the survey I got when I bought the place made no mention of that. I don't know who was right on that one, but $400 cash at the table made that problem go away, which IMHO, was a good deal.

Rick Lee 11-23-2008 02:47 PM

I should add that for my last purchase, I used a loan officer who came highly recommended from a good friend in the business. He was and is the best ever and he's one of the guys who always makes it through the bad times because he's a true pro. He doesn't make a gazillion dollars, but does well in the good times and makes it through the bad times. He referred me an agent who was also excellent and became a good friend. In fact, that agent offered to take care of renting out my condo for no charge when I moved to Phoenix. He's an Iraqi Kurd. And amazingly, the listing agent when I bought that condo was the wife of an Iraqi Sunni who owns one of the local Porsche shops, whom I also know well. Small world. Real estate can be a relationship business and if you pick someone good, you'll always have someone you can call and bounce ideas off of later on.

turbo6bar 11-23-2008 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Lee (Post 4320927)
Real estate can be a relationship business and if you pick someone good, you'll always have someone you can call and bounce ideas off of later on.

Da. If you have a good realtor on your side, it's great. Otherwise, you're screwed. Most people get screwed.

911Rob 12-14-2008 07:23 PM

Kyle,
Did you read this thread yet?


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