Have you ever gotten a goodwill repair after a warranty expired?

Rick Lee · Rick Lee's Garage

Yesterday a bizarre gremlin appeared in my bike's instrument cluster. The odometer suddenly went to 999999 and it's staying there. Both trip meters work, as do the speedo and tacho. My bike has 27,920 miles on her and I only know this because I got my last tank of gas immediately after changing my gear oil and entering the date and mileage in my logbook. So I can add the trip meter reading to that number. Warranty expired in August.

I have read of a few other cases like this, but they were all on bikes still under warranty and so they just replaced the cluster. Out of warranty, that's a $1000 part. I went to the dealer today and their service folks are way cool. They had it on their computer for almost two hours, trying all kinds of stuff, but nothing worked. They were able to save everything onto a memory stick to document to BMW NA and are calling them tomorrow to ask for a workaround and, barring that, a goodwill no-charge repair. But the tech said BMW has been pretty stingy with goodwill repairs recently. And he also said the fact that I DIY eveyrthing and have no service history in dealers' computer systems won't help my case. Though he agreed that nothing I could do to the bike would have caused this. It's purely a factory defect. It really chaps my hide that this is a non-wear item and can be nothing other than a facotry defect.

So now I'm gearing up for a huge fight with BMW NA. Anyone have some success stories to boost my confidence?

the · 12-15-2008, 08:05 PM

We had a new transmission put in our BMW (car) that was out of warranty. It was goodwilled by BMW. That was in the 80s, tho, and there were known problems with those transmissions. And the car had always been serviced at that same dealership (where it was also bought new).

BlueSideUp · 12-15-2008, 08:08 PM

I don't know if this will boost your confidence....

I sat next to a service manager for a Lexus dealership on a flight a few months ago. It seems that the first generation RX300s tend to grenade transmissions around 100K miles. He has authorized goodwill repairs for customers who have had their vehicles serviced at his dealership. I asked if he would do the same for a guy who did his own service and he said no.

For him it's a business decision as a service manager, you've brought no money to his department's bottom line.

I have a feeling that a good relationship with the service manager can go a long way, they might go to bat for you.

TerryH · TerryH's Garage

What's the most obvious means that determines value on a vehicle? Mileage. How can they not fix this for free and apologize for the inconvienence? There could be legal consequences here too. If you try to sell the bike with an obvious false odometer reading.... how much value are you giving up?

This has happened on BMW cars too.

Stanley · 12-15-2008, 08:18 PM

On my 2000 Saab 9-5 the transmission went out a few months after the 4 year warranty ran out (car had 32,000 miles). Dealer goodwilled it. This was done my by the previous owner so I'm not sure how much of a fight he had to put up. Same car also had the engine replaced by Saab, but that was recall for engine sludge. This was because Saab recommended oil change intervals at something like 15K miles with semi-synthetic.

Rick Lee · Rick Lee's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by TerryH

How can they not fix this for free and apologize for the inconvienence? There could be legal consequences here too.

I can easily see them refusing to do it. The simple solution for them is for me to cough up $1000 for their new part. I don't think the dealer has much to say about this. It's on BMW NA. I've probably bought $500 in parts from this dealer since March, but I just moved here then and so that was the first they ever saw me.

TerryH · TerryH's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

I can easily see them refusing to do it. The simple solution for them is for me to cough up $1000 for their new part. I don't think the dealer has much to say about this. It's on BMW NA. I've probably bought $500 in parts from this dealer since March, but I just moved here then and so that was the first they ever saw me.

Isn't tampering with an odometer illegal? I would say BMW's computer gremlins tampered with your odometer.

Rick Lee · Rick Lee's Garage

I'm sure they have a bigger legal team than I do. I should just write my letter now and let it ferment a while before I need to send it.

Steve Carlton · 12-15-2008, 08:36 PM

Judging by the lengths your dealer went to help you, I would conclude your technician was probably telling the truth about BMW being stingy. In recent years, I've always heard they're tough with warranty claims (I've owned three since 2001). I seriously doubt you're going to get a goodwill repair, but if it is denied, I'd ask to speak with the service rep. I'd be super nice and polite, as they have zero obligation to help you and they're not worried about a "huge fight."

It's true that your dealer history plays into their discretion to help you. That's true in the car business as well, although these days I'll bet the spigot is shut down most of the time.

I have a really good relationship with my dealer, and they got a $3,300 repair done for me that BMW would have certainly denied. They were a little vague about it, but it seemed each dealer accumulates some sort of credit to apply towards goodwill as they see fit. They will obviously use this credit at their discretion for their good customers. You might want to have a real chummy conversation with your service manager to see if there's any way they can "self-authorize" the repair. I wouldn't hold my breath, but it's worth a try. I don't know if their ability to self-authorize is still available if the factory turns it down. I'll try and talk to my dealer tomorrow to see if he has any tips.

Rick Lee · Rick Lee's Garage

Thanks Steve. What do you know about what Terry wrote about odometer tampering? I know it wasn't tampered with, but I don't think any reasonable person thinks 28k miles is anything close to the life expectancy of an odometer. If odometer readings are legally required for sale and registration, wouldn't there be some kind of legal onus on BMW sort of like the law about catalytic converters being warrantied for 10 yrs.?

mossguy · 12-15-2008, 08:44 PM

"Have you ever gotten a goodwill repair after a warranty expired? "

Yes, recently, on both my hearing aids.

Best,

Tom

Steve Carlton · 12-15-2008, 08:52 PM

There's no obligation for manufacturers to warranty odometers beyond the factory warranty. If there was, there would be separate warranties like on emissions controls or airbags. I see no daylight in suggestion the dealer or the computer fried the odometer if that's what Terry's suggesting. First off, the bike was brought in with a failed odometer before the dealer hooked their computer to it. If the bike's computer fried it, so what. Why would that make it warrantable?

campbellcj · 12-15-2008, 08:53 PM

Yep, I had some things on my Audi covered after its warranty had expired. Customer service and repeat business are very important to these shops, but profitability is too. It's a fine balance but an astute service manager should realize that if you are satisfied with them and find some reasonable arrangement, then you are likely to come back in the future and bring them more business.

nostatic · nostatic's Garage

You are at the mercy of the shop and BMW NA. I believe that BMW NA has the final word, but the shop can go to bat for you. This is why I think it is important to have a relationship with a shop. Your having bought parts there helps, but you likely have told them that you diy everything, so they don't see you as a return customer for service. And with the interwebs, parts are easy to get elsewhere...so it is their roll of the dice if they think they'll get a "return" on the investment of either eating the cost (which they've already done for some labor) or using their goodwill with BMW NA.

Rick Lee · Rick Lee's Garage

Does BMW NA consider what I'll write about them every place I can if they don't cover this? I won't blame the dealer at all. How much business could I possibly give them? I've only lived here since March.

Shaun @ Tru6 · 12-16-2008, 05:06 AM

Apple is Awesome!

SLO-BOB · 12-16-2008, 05:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

Does BMW NA consider what I'll write about them every place I can if they don't cover this?

My wife's VW Beetle was a pos, but VW pretty much covered everything during our 5 year ownership, much of it out of warranty. We started off aggressively, demanding that they take the car back under the Lemon Law. Naturally, they declined and we chose not to pursue it, but I think it did us some good in that we never paid for a repair.

BMW Mottorad has much bigger fish to fry than odometer defects. You know what I'm talking about - clutch spline failures and final drive failures. There are a few others such as wiring harness fires due to the grip warmers shorting. BMW has absolutely refused to acknowledge that there is a defect at all in their design or problems in the assembly. They have, however, quietly honored many repairs out of warranty as long as you have a documented history, If your service history is up to par, it's with a BMW dealer, and you are the original owner. Just don't let them get wind of the "I wrecked my bike today" thread

.

Rick Lee · Rick Lee's Garage

Slo-Bob, I've heard BMW has been very good at goodwill replacements on post-warranty FD failures recently. Seems the bad press has been getting to them. However, service history should not be relevant to my problem. No amount of dealer service could affect this electrical gremlin, not fluid changes, valve adjustments, nothing. Tech told me that yesterday too. Nothing anyone could have done to the bike would have caused this.

SLO-BOB · 12-16-2008, 06:13 AM

Rick, I agree. But, it's more that it sets the stage as to what kind of customer you are. Do you tinker at home or do you bring your bike to a BMW service center for oil changes? (rhetorical) Common sense rarely comes into play on these issues. BMW is more willing to negotiate with a "team" player.

BMW AG and Mottorad have a long history of design issues and an equally long history of publicly pretending they don't exist. Look at the rear shock mount problems on E36 BMW cars. They tore off the chassis! BMW still has not admitted to the defect even though aftermarket fixes are the first thing you look for if you are buying a 95 M3. There are many other examples.

BMW doesn't seem terribly concerned with the dissatisfaction of a few (hundred) people when their sales are ever increasing. The GS bikes are hugely popular and far and away their best selling bike. Sadly, it's well known that BMW has switched it's focus from hardcore enthusiasts to marketing. That started in the 80s with the 320i that so appealed to the Gucci set. Now they market a 4000 lb M3 as their "sports" car. Not that the GS bike and the M3 are bad. Not at all. I love the GS, but it could be so much better and it's not the standard of reliability that most of us thought.

Fwiw - I did a search on the MOA website. There has not been an inordinate amount of complaints on faulty odometers on hex heads.

SLO-BOB · 12-16-2008, 06:28 AM

What I should say is that I think they will cover it depending on how you handle it. I would try the "Love the bike, I'm a BMWMOA member, plan on buying a new one every two years in fact I'm pricing Adventures, yada yada, but I need to know that BMW stands behind it's products" approach. Keep it friendly but firm.