The $25 lawyer. Or can you be too compassionate?

[Dueller]

There's an old lawyer anecdote, perhaps true, perhaps not, that goes something like this:

There was a small town lawyer, a solo practitioner, who was very conscientous and hard working that tried to help his clients without gouging them. He had an elderly client, an old gent of modest means who would frequently stop and and chat with the country lawyer and maybe have a cup of coffee.

The lawyer always obliged even though the old man didn't often have any serious legal matters to tend to. Perhaps a deed or a change to his will or some other such ministerial issue. The compassionate lawyer would rarely charge him the full amount he would normally expect. Maybe $25 to help him if he charged anything at all.

The elderly client was tragically involved in a rail road crossing accident and seriously injured. Fortunately, he regained his health. However, the old gent retained the services of another attorney to represent him for injuries received in te accuident. In short order, the old man received a settlement from the railroad for over $2 million.

This troubled the small town lawyer and finally one day, he decided to just ask the fellow why he hired another lawyer to help him in his suit against the railroad. He asked "After all those years where I handled your legal affairs, rarely charging you and if I did it was a modest amount, why did you hire someone else to handle your accident with the railroad company?"

The old man, oviously suprised by this question, replied "OHHHHH.....I thought you was just a $25 lawyer."



As they say, "No good deed goes unpunished." And I think I may just put myself in a similar position as the $25 lawyer. I try not to gouge my clients and take into consideration their plight and circumstances. I often discount my fees when I know they need legal assistance but can't afford paying the going rate. But then these same clients will often expect to pay nothing or slow pay me after I have done their work. It is very frustrating when you try to help someone and they want to take further advantage of you.

However, I cannot forget there are those who are honorable. Like the old couple I won a lawsuit for and saved their retirement. But that's for another time.

At least I can look at the man in the mirror.

[Burnin' oil]

Originally Posted by Dueller

. . .

At least I can look at the man I shave with in the miorror.

I think there is a better way of saying this.

[dhoward]

The one looking over your shoulder?
I don't get it...

[Dueller]

Originally Posted by Burnin' oil

I think there is a better way of saying this.

LOL...yeah, you're right.

[looneybin]

I've noticed that on professional fees, if you discount them then the client does not value them

[phoenix_iii]

double post

[phoenix_iii]

Originally Posted by Burnin' oil

I think there is a better way of saying this.

LOL

It's called 'The Man In The Glass'

http://ezinearticles.com/?Self---The-Man-in-The-Glass&id=396690

THE MAN IN THE GLASS

When you get what you want in your struggle for self

And the world makes you king for a day,

Just go to the mirror and look at yourself

And see what that man has to say.

For it isn't your father or mother or wife,

Whose judgment upon you must pass.

The fellow whose verdict counts most in your life,

Is the one staring back from the glass.

You may be like Jack Horner and chisel a plum

And think you're a wonderful guy.

But the person in the glass says you’re only a bum

If you can't look him straight in the eye

He's the fellow to please-never mind all the rest,

For he's with you clear to the end.

And you've passed your most dangerous, difficult test,

If the man in the glass is your friend.

You may fool the whole world down the pathway of years

And get pats on the back as you pass.

But your final reward will be heartache and tears,

If you've cheated the man in the glass.

-Anonymous-

[legion]

You are correct.

I had a TV, a TV stand and a reciever for sale in the newsletter at work. Well, I listed them for free at first, I just wanted to get rid of them.

I got dozen e-mails. I cancelled or delayed plans because people were coming "right after work" to take the items off of my hands. Two weeks of a lot of interest and no one actually showing up to take the stuff. I relisted it a week later with a $20 price tag on each item. There were all sold (and picked up) by the end of the day.

The question is, how do you discontinue these relationships where people are taking advantage of you?

My thoughts:

-Don't perform new legal work until people have paid you for old legal work.
-Maybe stop answering the phone for the worst offenders?

[Rot 911]

Originally Posted by Dueller

At least I can look at the man in the mirror.

Yeah, but so can the attorney that got the $2 million settlement. You discount your services in advance and all people see is a cheap attorney that they won't take their "real" cases to. Discount some of the bill at the end and your clients will see you as a good and decent attorney.

[RWebb]

yes, tell them you will discount up front then bill normally with a xx% off letter or something

glad I don't have clients...

[rammstein]

This is an interesting concept. It can apply to many facets of life.

[Noah930]

Don't think healthcare is much different.

Certain people have no health insurance (despite being of sound body and semi-gainful employment--or so they tell me, if not the IRS ). They go to the local ER to get some sort of emergency help. Don't expect that they'll ever get around to paying any portion of their bill. From my personal experience, they won't (despite all their promises to do so while they're in there in the ER before/while you're doing your thing).

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by Dueller

There's an old lawyer anecdote, perhaps true, perhaps not, that goes something like this:

There was a small town lawyer, a solo practitioner, who was very conscientous and hard working that tried to help his clients without gouging them. He had an elderly client, an old gent of modest means who would frequently stop and and chat with the country lawyer and maybe have a cup of coffee.

The lawyer always obliged even though the old man didn't often have any serious legal matters to tend to. Perhaps a deed or a change to his will or some other such ministerial issue. The compassionate lawyer would rarely charge him the full amount he would normally expect. Maybe $25 to help him if he charged anything at all.

The elderly client was tragically involved in a rail road crossing accident and seriously injured. Fortunately, he regained his health. However, the old gent retained the services of another attorney to represent him for injuries received in te accuident. In short order, the old man received a settlement from the railroad for over $2 million.

This troubled the small town lawyer and finally one day, he decided to just ask the fellow why he hired another lawyer to help him in his suit against the railroad. He asked "After all those years where I handled your legal affairs, rarely charging you and if I did it was a modest amount, why did you hire someone else to handle your accident with the railroad company?"

The old man, oviously suprised by this question, replied "OHHHHH.....I thought you was just a $25 lawyer."



As they say, "No good deed goes unpunished." And I think I may just put myself in a similar position as the $25 lawyer. I try not to gouge my clients and take into consideration their plight and circumstances. I often discount my fees when I know they need legal assistance but can't afford paying the going rate. But then these same clients will often expect to pay nothing or slow pay me after I have done their work. It is very frustrating when you try to help someone and they want to take further advantage of you.

However, I cannot forget there are those who are honorable. Like the old couple I won a lawsuit for and saved their retirement. But that's for another time.

At least I can look at the man in the mirror.

MAY I SUGGEST: That you tell the client you're doing favors for IN ADVANCE that you would "FULLY EXPECT that if he ever has a big case in the future that he'd come to you."

Problem solved, i think.

OR you could tell it in the form of a story about how a lawyer buddy of yours helped this guy for years, and then the guy screwed him over when the time came to actually make some money.

That should also be pretty effective.

[911Rob]

Hey Due,
Great post, thanks.

This concept definitely applies to many industries, including RE commission sales.

My own approach is go "top shelf"; make all the money you can. Then pick your charities.

If my fees come up I often say to my clients..... "I'll be happy to take my wallet out at the end of the deal" and I outline how certain savings in my fees can transpire; largely with their cooperation. I've found if I discount my fees at the beginning of a deal, those are the very people that make me work the hardest; more for less, so to speak.

I've done lots of deals for a personal loss, to help out the families, but I usually tell them at the end of the deal and it works best if I cut them a refund cheque and not just discount the deal. I also ask them not to tell anyone, as I like to pick my own charities and not advertise them. Nothing like handing a client a cheque for $5000 that they weren't expecting! One lady, who was a friend of ours, starting crying she was so happy.

I don't charge friends or family, but I don't advertise it either. If they call me, I do the work and at the end of the day I don't charge; then I ask them not to tell anyone. Seems to work good. The odd time I've intended on reducing my fees for a client and then they get all nasty or something and I change my mind.

Work is work.
Family is family.
Charity is charity.
Keep them separate imo.

Now when it comes to lawyers and what they charge.... well, that would be another post! Ha.

The first thing about charging great sums of money for what we do is that you have to believe you're worth it. Do the work with excellence and believe. If you want to make a million dollars per year, that's $83,000/month and almost $20,000/week; not many have the self esteem to accept that kind of money as pay for services rendered?

Hope this helps you out kind sir.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by looneybin

I've noticed that on professional fees, if you discount them then the client does not value them

Yup.

[Jims5543]

That old man in your story was a clueless a-hole.


I wish I had you as a lawyer or the lawyer int he story. To date I have dished out over 30K in fees defending myself against a bull***** lawsuit. The only thing I am guilty of is being a responsible businessman. The person that should be sued has not even been sued at all because he has no money.


My lawyer informed me 2 weeks ago that he will no longer work on my case because I am past due on $2400. Which I am glad because as this case sat dormant for months he always seemed to hammer at me with sort sort of BS bill every month. This case sat dormant so long we thought the plaintiff had dropped it and just did not file the paperwork. Yet, I was still being hammered with bills.

Its funny, I have tried this stunt with my clients, shutting them down when they do not pay and they basically go find another land surveyor. I guess I could start from scratch with a new lawyer since mine only cares about his money.


My bro in law was falsely ticket 3 months after an accident happened behind him and he got out of his car to try to aid a helmetless motorcycle rider who died in his arms.

He gave a statement to the officer and it seems to really bad drivers found each other on the road, both the motorcycle driver and the driver of the car that struck him had infraction lists pages long, including DWI's..

Yet, 3 months later my bro in law was ticketed, his insurance panicked and offered a payout to the widow of the motorcycle driver, who insisted on a financial disclosure from my bro in law before she would take the settlement.

Keep in mind my bro in law did nothing wrong, the ticket was fabricated and we still do not know why.

My bro in law found a traffic attorney who was so pissed by the whole thing, he took the case pro bono. when the court date came the judge assigned was not a traffic judge but a criminal judge. More weirdness.

Long story short, the case was thrown out and the judge was pissed off at the cop.


Dueller - My bro in law wants to buy the lawyer a nice gift. He has a new BMW, I thought something car related, or a really nice pen.

Good idea?

[Dottore]

Different story. Same moral.

We live part time in a ski-resort tourist-town.

Back in the days of the property boom, I knew a guy there who tried to sell his condo for $700,000—but couldn't find a buyer.

He switched real estate agents, and was told he should list it for "around $1million" because there were lots of buyers from the Seattle area in particular who were looking for something in "the $1million range".

He did, and his place sold a week later to a Seattle buyer for $1million.

[Christien]

Rob, interesting post, and I think that's a good system.

But it's different in law, is it not? I'm not sure if it's mandated, but the Canadian Bar Association expects its members to do a certain amount of pro bono work, do they not? It's the only profession outside of medicine that I can think of that expects its practitioners to work for free, to some degree.

[304065]

No good deed goes unpunished, very true.

Wonder how the $25 lawyer can afford his malpractice premiums.

Legal services are not differentiated by price, if you save money and end up with a bad outcome you haven't saved anything.

[Dottore]

Originally Posted by john_cramer

Legal services are not differentiated by price, if you save money and end up with a bad outcome you haven't saved anything.

No. But isn't the real point of the story that you don't always get what you pay for?

I spent many years as a partner in a top shelf firm. People came to us because they thought they were getting the best. Well sometimes they did, and sometimes they didn't.

I certainly have found no consistent correlation between price and value in the legal profession.