Will building codes apply for a hunting cottage?
 

My good friend, and now buisness partner. (he is also a porsche guy ) closed his buisness recently. He had a bunch of money banked in a barter network. He cashed it in for 23 wooded acres in the rural highlands area. We want to spend some time there this summer, and are thinking of cobbling a small 3 room cottage for hunting /camping etc... . We are both pretty handy type guys, we rehab houses in our spare time,but neither of us are in the buisness so are not familiar with the plethora of building codes that now exist. . I really dont feel like dealing with the planning comission, and the zoning officer yada yada. I went through all of this with my buisness, and it was a small nightmare. Can we just whack up some sort of structure, or do we have to go through the normal channels?.

Why not just find a older travel or 5th wheel trailer, everything is there and self contained. Just build a screen porch off the entrance and you're in business.... No permit hassles..

Depends on the jurisdiction. In a rural Alabama county, you might find that electrical and plumbing are the only concerns. Plumbing because of your leach field and electrical because many of these home grown cottages burn down. It takes the fire dept so long to get there that they're only concerned about the surrounding woods.

In CA, you'd never get a stick up w/o major headaches.

You really need to pick up the local building/zoning regs from the town offices. In many jurisdictions the penalties can be severe for ignoring the process and getting permits. All it takes is one miffed neighbor to turn you in. Get it and read it over, maybe the code is lax enough that you can do it without signed and stamped plans.

What Milt said. You need to check with the governing agency.

A lot of places (particularly in CA) will not allow a permanent trailer as a structure either. I know this is the case in some of the mountain communities to the north & east of San Bernardino.

What the problem with hiring an Architect? Would you do surgery on yourself or go see a doctor? Would you defend yourself against a lawsuit or see a lawyer? People would pay 6% commission to a realtor to sell their homes, but balk at hiring an Architect. I'm sure you can find plenty of Architects to help you. You can go the regular route of full design services or a design build concept.

Talk with an Architect, we are all not like these famous Architects
Wibur Post , owner of Mr. Ed
Mr. Brady of the Brady Bunch
Charles Bronson the Vigilante
Roy Thinnes, The Invader
Paul Newman, Towering Inferno

LOL

ask a local licensed builder from the area; he will know.
It's very likely that there are no local regulatory requirements; however there is likely State requirements for plumbing and electrical as previously mentioned.

If it were me, on a remote 23 acres of hunting land; I'd say screw the building permit requirements but build it properly to code. ;)

Most building permits allow so much work done without a permit; say $2500 value? So just do $2500 at a time, then sleep well at night :)

the laws apply everywhere. but some places have no one to enforce it. so anything goes.

Like out here we do whatever we please. If it is your own property and not going to be sold in the near future it does not matter. We have built several new buildings with full utilities and never hear a word. Now not saying that applies to you but never hurts to check. Or you could do it all yourself and slip the local plumber and electrician a coupla ben franks to check it over and sign-off on it.

If you put your sweat equity into putting together a cabin, I'd get it all legal with local permits etc. This is especially important if you plan on selling or bartering this place again in the future. A dwelling without permits is worthless or may even present negative value.

Why don't you guys just buy an old 24 foot travel trailer and put it on the property? Then enjoy hunting instead of having to build something half a$$?

George

Seems to me that if you think going through the permit process is a nightmare, just wait until you build without permits, and then have the bureaucracy catch up...

So true! I know someone that has been going through this - over and over. Not fun.

So nice to not live in one of those Nanny states.

Nothing to do with a "nanny" state. It's one thing to build a structure for your own personal use. It's another to build for other people. Think about apartments.

I'm sure that even Oklahoma has some laws :rolleyes:.

As for the OP, Laws differ from state to state, county to county. As has been suggested, talk to people knowledgeable in your area.

Well obviously if it was a COMMERCIAL structure. We are talking about a hunting cabin. Yes there are codes and out where we live there is no enforcement. There are no permits in the county and on private property the state does not care. Besides the wiring that we did in our barn with a full living space is nicer than the professionally wired house.

Sidney, the problem arises when the property comes up for sale. I'm sure the quality of your build is top notch, but can the same be said for everyone else? This is America, lawsuits are all too common.

We all live in different areas an have different views. Myself, living in SoCal, I hope - and will check, that a house I buy is up to code. Fires, earthquakes and floods/slides are big problems.

Yes, it is a hunting cabin, but there is a difference between a shack and cabin... What are the plans???

About half the Region I work and live in have a 'no permit' status and the other half claims 'grandfathering' status. :eek:

I sit on a couple boards trying to get rid of 'grandfathering'; especially for sewer, power and water.

Pretty remote here though, small town hicksville.

That's the way we are rob. At least out of city limits. Not much regulation.

It does not matter what WE say, other than that the OP should read up/ask on their local laws.

Building codes exist to guard the health, safety and welfare of the public.

I'm in Tioga County, where are the rural highlands? Certainly there are building codes, I believe Pennsylvania has adopted the International Building Codes, but square footage determines the permits by townships (at least here it did). Under a certain number of sq. ft. no permit required, then from there to a certain sq. ft. doesn't need to meet code, above that structures must meet code.

23 acres isn't really much land. There are pretty remote areas of PA, but the idea that nobody will ever know is unlikely, maybe they don't know the codes enforcement officer, but maybe they do. That township's inspector might have hunted right there for decades and doesn't like the idea of an "upfrom" buying and hunting there. Everyone knows all the problem hunters are drunks from Pittsburgh or Philly, so if you get caught cheating, expect it to be expensive.

My advice (and it is worth exactly what it is costing you) is to find out what the sq. ft. limit for a no code structure is and build to that. If you need storage, build a shed small enough that it doesn't need a permit. I don't know about septic, possibly an outhouse, I have very little understanding of sewage permits other than perking for an inground system is pretty rare. And I'd haul in a generator for electric.

First you tell him that it doesn't matter if he don't follow the building codes, then you tell him to bribe public officials to look the other way (which is a felony).

Will you send him a hacksaw in a cake when they throw his ass in the slammer?

From a conversation I had this morning, the septic is a real issue. I was told (certainly not an unimpeachable or 100% up to date source, but one I trust) that in PA even a composting toilet must have an approved septic system. If you just want a cabin for sleeping and eating and don't plan on installing plumbing, I think I'd couch my permit request in terms of a supply shed for hunting/camping equipment, and would not allude to plans for even part-time habitation. If you want to do it all on the up-and-up, probably setting up a site for a trailer would be easiest, but to build I could see needing a septic permit from the sewage enforcement officer, and there is no guarantee that the land would perk for any system regardless of cost.

Not bribe officials. Pay a pro to come in and look at the work and say ya its good or you need to change this and this. T

Being from the state of the next President of the United States and also the state in which the current govenor will be impeach and thrown out of office and convicted of various criminal activities and thrown into the jail cell next to our previous govenor, I mistook you words when you said to slip a couple of ben franklin to check it over and sign off on it.

That sounded like a pay off. I wonder if Blageo could use that as a defense?

+1

The problem is when someone else stumbles across it while out hiking, or you lend it to a friend for a weekend, or you have someone over with you while you're using it, or you sell the land and someone else goes into it, then the thing falls down and kills someone.

Check with the local agency before you do anything else to find out what the requirements are. If you just say "screw it" and build without permits or try to "get cute" by abusing loopholes, they eventually WILL catch up with you and it'll be far more difficult, expensive and time-consuming to set things right.

There are a lot of homes sitting on the market right now (mostly bank-owned) that are having to be demolished due to "non-permitted work". It's too expensive for the banks (or any prospective buyers) to bring the paperwork up to snuff with the cities, so the banks are just opting to demo the buildings and sell the raw land.

Building departments and inspectors are (more often than not) reasonable people who will work with you - until you try to ***** them over. Then they can, will and SHOULD get very nasty, very quickly.

Either call the city or go down there yourself or for chrissakes stop being so cheap and hire a professional to do the initial investigation for you. Why is this even a subject of discussion? Do you guys try to cheap out on your own brain surgery too by advertising for guys on Craigslist or what?

If he is building a part-time residence, fine I agree. He will need to secure the proper permits and pass the required inspections. They are unavoidable, and the inspection process will help to result in a more sound structure.

But if all he wants to do is put up a pole building to keep himself and his belongings dry and secure, why should an inspector fail the construction because he doesn't have R-38 insulation in the ceiling, or have the DEP run an endangered species impact study for a shed? As for calling the city, or going down himself, well, there
is no "city". None, and likely no zoning. In all probability the sewage enforcement officer will be in one township, the permit officer in another, the building inspector in third, and you will need to submit the survey and permits to the county. If he is building with full utilities, the permit process will be quite cumbersome, and here I must advise quite firmly: Get the survey done by a surveyor familiar with the local gov't. entities and procedures.

imo best avoided when all possible, but that's just my opinion. I never have a challenge with these people, but they are a challenge.

My experience has been that they were very helpful, a resource for procedural information, and helped to make my project a better building. And I went into the project assuming the inspectors would be an obstacle, but the reality has been that they facilitated the construction project. Even the DEP, while remarkably slow, was easy to deal with.

That's my take too. They obviously want their pound of flesh and some occasionally want their butts kissed a little, but if you go in and stroke their egos a bit and not with a cocky attitude (essentially let them feel like they're 'the guy') you get results and assistance. If you go in with a "my poop don't stink" attitude or like "I've done a dozen of these and I resent having to jump through your agency's B.S. hoops", they'll make life miserable for you. I've seen it happen enough times.

For the most part, most of the guys (and gals) in B&S departments are just there trying to do a job, not to impede your progress or be unreasonable. If you give them a REASON to be unreasonable and make life difficult for you, they will. Same goes for Fire Dept's, Planning Dept's (although they actually tend to be the worst, IMHO), etc.

How hard is it really to pull up a web page, make a phone call or go down and talk to a guy behind the counter for 20 minutes? Really?