LOST Season 5, Ep. 7

CJFusco · CJFusco's Garage

Holy. Living. God.

That episode was absolutely astounding. I had my doubts early this season, but LOST remains one of the best-written, complex, imaginative, emotive shows on television - if not ever.

I was absolutely blown away by tonight's episode. Ever notice that the Locke-centric episodes always seem the most affective/affecting?

The conversation that Locke and Jack have in the hospital is basically a microcosm for their entire dynamic throughout the show: blind faith vs. logical empiricism. When Locke shatters Jack's logic/reason-based world, he begins the slow descent into instability (remember, he ends up abusing drugs and suicidal).

I think the big questions of the episode were:

Did Ben know that Locke would come back to life once back on the Island? (my guess is no)

Should we be rooting for Widmore or Ben in this coming "War"? All the evidence now is pointing to Widmore being the "good guy," but the opposite was true of last season. Plus, Widmore isn't exactly nice to our buddy Desmond (our very own Odysseus!), and DID try to have everyone on the island exterminated... plus, his henchman's name (Abaddon) means "destruction" in Hebrew...

More likely, neither of them are either totally good or totally evil (although Ben does seem pretty evil at times, doesn't he?).

Another note: IIRC, Tunisia is one of the 8 "points" on the octohedron grid that AREN'T in the water (see my post from last week about "the numbers" http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showt...t=lost+episode)

IROC · IROC's Garage

I agree. One of the best episodes ever. When the new "Losties" were on the beach and "the man they found wearing a suit" was seated in the middle of them with the hood, I thought, "Man, that's got to be Locke"!!

I am tending to lean towards Widmore being the "good guy" in all of this. His past issues with Desmond could have been a result of protecting his daughter and IIRC nearly everything else he has done or been involved with has been honest and straightforward (with the possible exception of Alex, but I don't know if he "gave that order" or not).

I mentioned this in the other thread, but Lost is seeming to take on more of a "Christianity" theme. I wonder if Locke was "dead" for three days?

ramonesfreak · ramonesfreak's Garage

Someone was odd about the timeline. when jack original found out about john's death, he was seen with a long beard. last night we saw clearly, jack was working and looking clean just before john's death.....something aint right, assuming jack found out shortly after john's death. he wouldnt have had time to grow that beard

VaSteve · 02-26-2009, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by srandallf

Someone was odd about the timeline. when jack original found out about john's death, he was seen with a long beard. last night we saw clearly, jack was working and looking clean just before john's death.....something aint right, assuming jack found out shortly after john's death. he wouldnt have had time to grow that beard

He was growing the beard when tending to Locke in the hosiptal. I bet seeing Locke send him all the way over the edge. Remember Ben said he was flying to Australia and coming back the next day (ref: last season). Makes you wonder how long Locke was on ice.

UconnTim97 · UconnTim97's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by IROC

I mentioned this in the other thread, but Lost is seeming to take on more of a "Christianity" theme. I wonder if Locke was "dead" for three days?

I can see how the show takes some elements from Christianity. That would make Ben the role of Pontius Pilate.

rattlsnak · rattlsnak's Garage

Well, Ben is dead in the end. We'll just have to wait to see how long he 'stays dead.'
I think he was follwing Locke to find the passageway back to the island. Once he got that info, he didnt need him anymore and killed him??

tangerine911S · 02-26-2009, 09:03 PM

I watched the every show up to the first episode of this year. I watch them on ABC.com. Dont give too much away I have to catch up! I really like this show although as it got weirder, my interest started to dwindle.

Schumi · 02-26-2009, 09:04 PM

I just want to know the role that Jack's father is playing in all of this.

Pazuzu · 02-26-2009, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rattlsnak

Well, Ben is dead in the end. We'll just have to wait to see how long he 'stays dead.'
I think he was follwing Locke to find the passageway back to the island. Once he got that info, he didnt need him anymore and killed him??

Dead? He's not dead, if he was, he wouldn't be an a makeshift hospital bed.

Pazuzu · 02-26-2009, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schumi

I just want to know the role that Jack's father is playing in all of this.

And you'll find out.

In about 36 months, when the show ends

CJFusco · CJFusco's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by IROC

I agree. One of the best episodes ever. When the new "Losties" were on the beach and "the man they found wearing a suit" was seated in the middle of them with the hood, I thought, "Man, that's got to be Locke"!!

I am tending to lean towards Widmore being the "good guy" in all of this. His past issues with Desmond could have been a result of protecting his daughter and IIRC nearly everything else he has done or been involved with has been honest and straightforward (with the possible exception of Alex, but I don't know if he "gave that order" or not).

I mentioned this in the other thread, but Lost is seeming to take on more of a "Christianity" theme. I wonder if Locke was "dead" for three days?

There has been a strong Christianity theme in the show since the beginning, but there are also strong Buddhist and Taoist themes all along (light/dark, DHARMA and its octagon logo, etc.). Take for example the 3 "J" names: Jack, John (Locke), and James (Sawyer); 3 guys who emerge as leaders, although they have vastly different personal philosophies. 3 guys with J names (one of them being "Shepherd") that are chosen as "Special" by the Others. 3 guys with serious "daddy issues."

There is also the CS Lewis connection; as we all know, almost everything Lewis wrote was meant as a Christian parable. Charlotte's name is basically CS Lewis, the "Light Post" was the landmark by which the kids can find their way home in Narnia, and in "Prince Caspian," a little boy is sent to live with his Uncle - a man that does not get along with his father - after his mother's death (will this be the case with Little Charlie? Desmond=father, Penny=mother, Widmore="uncle"?)

rattlsnak · rattlsnak's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pazuzu

Dead? He's not dead, if he was, he wouldn't be an a makeshift hospital bed.

Well I thought that, but i thought Ceasar said, 'everybody is accounted for except the people that are missing and the other people who didnt make it' and he showed them the people in the other room. DIdnt quite make sense to me as some looked like they just had broken arms, etc...

What did Ceasar say then when he mentioned the people in the room?

Pazuzu · 02-27-2009, 06:36 AM

I got the impression that everyone was accounted for, as in, there's these people, the dead bodies, and the losties who poofed away. I wouldn't drag the dead into a building and put them on cots...

Now, what did Ben expect? Did he think that the plane would just crash, or that it would poof everyone, including him? Or was he (for the first time so far) letting go of his stranglehold on the world around him, and letting karma do it's thing? That boy just can't relax for a second, can he?

CJFusco · CJFusco's Garage

I don't think Ben knew what to expect. I don't think that Ben Linus knows quite as much as he's led us to believe; he knows a lot, to be sure - he even knows how to summon the smoke monster - but he is obviously a chess piece (although not a pawn) within the game of the narrative.

CJFusco · CJFusco's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by srandallf

Someone was odd about the timeline. when jack original found out about john's death, he was seen with a long beard. last night we saw clearly, jack was working and looking clean just before john's death.....something aint right, assuming jack found out shortly after john's death. he wouldnt have had time to grow that beard

Hmm. That's a good point. When Jack finds out about Locke's death, he also attempts to commit suicide (but the Island won't let him); at this point, Jack was heavily addicted to pills, unkempt, suspended from the hospital, and obsessively flying back-and-forth hoping to crash-land on the Island (as seen in Season Four).

Now we see Locke in Jack's hospital after the car crash. Jack has the beginnings of his beard, and looed a little ragged, but was still actively employed. I can only assume that Locke's revelation to Jack was what really unravelled the man; I don't remember whether or not Kate left him before or after Locke ended up in his hospital. Perhaps Locke's visit wasn't what caused his growing addiction to pills? Maybe he was already on the way down before Locke showed up?

The only thing I can figure is that some time had passed between Locke's hospital visit and his attempted suicide. Maybe he laid low for awhile, growing more and more despondent? This is a show that has very, very few plot holes and continuity flubs, so I'm sure there's an explanation.