Truck: Diesel Vs Gas

[Hendog]

You may have seen my other thread: "Teach me about 1 ton diesel" Now I'm questioning whether I should even buy a diesel as opposed to a gas. I was talking to a friend today who suggested the gas gets better mileage when not loaded, but of course gets thursty when pulling a load. The initial cost of the diesel is $4-6K more (1998-2002 models), which buys a lot of gas. The repairs on a diesel are also thousands more $$ and not as readily accessible while on the road. The gas has plenty of power to pull as well.

Given I will only put 5K-10K kilometers a year on it, I'd be interested to hear what other may have to say on the pros and cons of each. I'm glad I'm not in a rush

[Dantilla]

My preference is gas. Diesels have come a long way, but I still don't like their lousy throttle response and stinky exhaust.

I have a 2001 Chevy 3/4 ton with the 6.0 litre gas engine with 4:10 gears. Works great for towing.

[fingpilot]

The trend is to be putting catalytic converters on diesels to stop the pollution. Kahleeforniaaah is even talking retrofitting EVERY diesel in the state. $25K per.

I'd go gas. Yes, I realize you're a little north of CA, but it's coming.

[TimT]

gas gets better mileage when not loaded

I don't agree with that at all. My brother and I have almost identical Ford F250s. Same year, 2003, 4X4, Supercab, long bed, same trim level XLT. My truck is a 6.0 PSD diesel, his is a gas V8.

We have compared notes, he mentions getting low 10-12 mpg around town driving, and high teens highway driving..

I have hand calculated the mpg of my diesel...usually see 18 mpg around town mileage, and have hit as high as 22 mpg highway if I keep my foot out of it. Towing I get between 12-15 (26 Box trailer loaded with racecar and attendant crap)

My brother doesn't use his truck for towing, so cant report that info..

[porsche4life]

My dads dodges average 18+ unloaded and down around 14 under a really heavy load. And throttle lag? pfft. these new turbo diesels will snap your neck and cover a mile before your head hits the ground. Seriously the torque is incredible. repair isnt really that bad. In 200k all my dad has done to his is a new clutch at 180,000 and a new injector and lift pump about 170,000

[Hendog]

Originally Posted by TimT

I don't agree with that at all. My brother and I have almost identical Ford F250s. Same year, 2003, 4X4, Supercab, long bed, same trim level XLT. My truck is a 6.0 PSD diesel, his is a gas V8.

We have compared notes, he mentions getting low 10-12 mpg around town driving, and high teens highway driving..

I have hand calculated the mpg of my diesel...usually see 18 mpg around town mileage, and have hit as high as 22 mpg highway if I keep my foot out of it. Towing I get between 12-15 (26 Box trailer loaded with racecar and attendant crap)

My brother doesn't use his truck for towing, so cant report that info..

Thanks for that Tim. That's the kind of info I'm looking for. Hard to beat a direct comparison like that. Anymore anecdotes out there?

[Laneco]

I'm a big-time oil-burner fan... Nothing in the world like gobs and gobs of torque. We've had our 7.3 Power Stroke Turbo (1997) for about 7 years now. We did have the transmission rebuilt last summer. Other than that, all that we have done is changle fluids and replace the fuel filter, and the valve cover gaskets (they have electrical connections for the injectors - not cheap).

That's it for 7 years (in our ownership - 12 year old truck) and now 170,000 miles. Get about 16 or 17 in town and very consistently 23-24 on the highway at 60, but down to 22-23 at 70. Surprisingly, it will get about 17 or 18 towing a 5th wheel travel trailer at highway speeds.

The thing is though that diesel is more expensive than gas right now. Plus the premium to get into a diesel truck. For towing lighter loads and only 5-10,000 per year, I suggest you give the LS series gas engines in the 97ish and newer Chevy's a good close look. Decent mileage, good torque and cheap fuel coupled with a lower entry cost. Worth a look.

angela

[VINMAN]

With the diesel tuners that are available, such as the Gale Banks or Diablo tuners, the performance you can get out of them is incredible. I have a Banks tuner. You can tweek it for mileage or power. Or a litttle of both.

[Hendog]

Originally Posted by Laneco

I'm a big-time oil-burner fan... Nothing in the world like gobs and gobs of torque. We've had our 7.3 Power Stroke Turbo (1997) for about 7 years now. We did have the transmission rebuilt last summer. Other than that, all that we have done is changle fluids and replace the fuel filter, and the valve cover gaskets (they have electrical connections for the injectors - not cheap).

That's it for 7 years and now 170,000 miles. Get about 16 or 17 in town and very consistently 23-24 on the highway at 60, but down to 22-23 at 70. Surprisingly, it will get about 17 or 18 towing a 5th wheel travel trailer at highway speeds.

The thing is though that diesel is more expensive than gas right now. Plus the premium to get into a diesel truck. For towing lighter loads and only 5-10,000 per year, I suggest you give the LS series gas engines in the 97ish and newer Chevy's a good close look. Decent mileage, good torque and cheap fuel coupled with a lower entry cost. Worth a look.

angela

Hey Angela, how many miles were on your tranny when it gave out?
As for fuel prices, diesel may be more $ right now but that's not really the big issue for me since prices historically varry. Gas will go up again. But I do like the fuel mieage the diesels are exhibiting; it offsets the cost of fuel by the sounds of it.

[VincentVega]

repairs on a diesel are also thousands more $$

On what engine? Injection pump, maybe a lift pump, but what else is there? Oil changes are spendy so is a radiator, but that's about it.

With such limited mileage it would take a long, long time to offset the additional cost. Also, since diesel is more expensive, at least on the east coast, it takes even longer to pay off.

If you tow 10k+ and/or all the time it makes sense. Otherwise it's just personal preference. One thing I didnt like about my GM diesel was not being able to tow in OD. ~3k rpm with a diesel for 3+ hours is a major headache. Way too much noise.

[Laneco]

Hendog,

We put the trans in at about 165. The truck was in tow-use before we bought it. We seldom tow with it.

Most of the people who have these say that you are looking at a trans somewhere between 150 and 200, a differential after that but the engine will run strong (with proper maintenance) well in excessive of 350,000 miles... The differential rebuild is a VERY affordable pre-emptive repair - well, alot less than the transmission was - LOL!

We actually just put our diesel pickup for sale as part of the new streamlined economics at Casa de Lane...

I am seriously going to regret the day this truck drives away...

angela

[dd74]

Originally Posted by Dantilla

My preference is gas. Diesels have come a long way, but I still don't like their lousy throttle response and stinky exhaust.

Most diesels are now turbo diesels with nearly all the torque around the low 1,000s in the RPM range. That means instant power the moment the transmission can convert the power.

There is nothing "lagging" about modern diesels.

[dd74]

Originally Posted by fingpilot

The trend is to be putting catalytic converters on diesels to stop the pollution.

Yeah? And what's wrong with that? Diesels equipped this way have no tailpipe smoke or exhaust smell. I'd rather be stuck in traffic behind a new diesel p/up than a gasoline powered p/up.

Originally Posted by fingpilot

Kahleeforniaaah is even talking retrofitting EVERY diesel in the state. $25K per.

According to this article, only 200,000 old diesel trucks could be affected by this by 2010. At that time, the $25K might be better spent on a newer, more powerful and efficient diesel rig.

[TimT]

I've owned a bunch of tow vehicles over the years.... Secret to transmission longevity is change the fluid yearly.. its not a big expense, and is a maintenance item that is often overlooked..

Ford recommends 30K fluid changes( for my vehicle)... I drive around 24K/year... so I'm now in the habit of changing tranny/dif/transfer case fluids every spring solstice.

The trend is to be putting catalytic converters on diesels to stop the pollution.

Again so what? my 03 F250 PSD has a catalytic converter. Not sure how many years prior to the 2003 model year they started equipping these diesel pickem ups with catalytic converters

[dd74]

Originally Posted by Hendog

The initial cost of the diesel is $4-6K more (1998-2002 models), which buys a lot of gas. The repairs on a diesel are also thousands more $$ and not as readily accessible while on the road. The gas has plenty of power to pull as well.

Yes, initial cost is more, but per manufacturer for new diesels, it's only about $1K on average.

Maintenance is the same $$$ wise, FWIK. Maybe the thing to do is take the engine to a diesel specialist. Or become a DIYer.

[ednj]

Gasoline: US gallon = 115,000 Btu
Diesel = 138,500 Btu/gallon
Biodiesel, waste vegetable oil = 120,000 Btu

[TimT]

Maintenance is the same $$$ wise

Incorrect

Just speaking from experience in the Ford world of diesel pickem ups..I bet the new Chebby and Dodge diesels have similar maintenance schedules.

the 6.0 PSD takes 14.5 quarts of oil for a an oil change, the filter is about $20

One gallon jugs of Rotella are now $20 so 4X20 then $20 more for the filter... if you do it yourself, $100 for an oil change... Now pick you change interval!

There are two fuel filters, one is a frame mounted "water separator/fuel preheater/prefilter" the other is a very fine engine mounted filter. You will have diesel running down into your armpit changing the frame mounted filter.

There is a bypass filter on the transmission $50 from the dealer...change every 30K or if you are like my once a year..

Air Filter is a an expensive piece also..I have forgotten the cost of an air filter.

Serpentine belt...

Modern diesels are very complicated pieces of machinery

Even after the gas and diesel prices flip-flopped a few years ago I'd go diesel... that's just me..

[dd74]

Originally Posted by TimT

Incorrect

On a Mercedes diesel? That's from where my "FWIK" derives.

I don't know anything about American diesels, except from watching Speeder rebuild his.

[speeder]

Originally Posted by TimT

Incorrect

Just speaking from experience in the Ford world of diesel pickem ups..I bet the new Chebby and Dodge diesels have similar maintenance schedules.

the 6.0 PSD takes 14.5 quarts of oil for a an oil change, the filter is about $20

One gallon jugs of Rotella are now $20 so 4X20 then $20 more for the filter... if you do it yourself, $100 for an oil change... Now pick you change interval!

.

Where in the world are you buying your oil??

I was paying about $10 a gallon for either Rotella, Mobil or Chevron Delo @ Walmart in '07 when I sold my truck. A Motorcraft filter was maybe $10 @ FLAPS. Still not the cheapest oil change, but my intervals were about ~7k miles. Fuel and air filters weren't that bad, as I recall.

[speeder]

Originally Posted by Dantilla

My preference is gas. Diesels have come a long way, but I still don't like their lousy throttle response and stinky exhaust.

I have a 2001 Chevy 3/4 ton with the 6.0 litre gas engine with 4:10 gears. Works great for towing.

Yeah, those diesels are real dogs off the line.