Funny I know one consultant, I do not think he is that great, but heck someone does, and he charges $2500/day expecting 10 hours a day. I know that is a lot, but what the heck, it is usually for a short period anyways... Maybe ask for $1200/day

I've done a fair bit of consulting in my day; it was always on a project basis, monthly retainer for my services with an estimated amount of my time involved to do the work. Of course I was certain that I could do the job in the estimated time frames and you have to be careful that your time doesn't get chewed up with the project. But this route always paid me very well, fwiw.

I would never consider an hourly consulting job. I have friends that do it and it sucks imo.

Last week a friend in MD called and read off a job description to me, asked if that sounded like my company. It definitely was. They use a recruiter and don't advertise the company name in job ads, but I know it was our company. A few days later I found that same ad here in Phoenix and it said it was based in Phoenix. The job is slightly different than what I do, in that it's strictly new business development and no existing account management. I do both. But I know the new CEO wants to beef up the sales force and trim back on some of the other departments, which I think is the right thing to do. Trouble is they have a bad sales model and the internal communications are beyond horrible. Morale isn't much better, but mgt. knows they can do what they want to the sales folks because these jobs ain't growing on trees in this economy.

There is no negotiating with my boss. It's an all or nothing thing with him. He's been pretty good to me when he didn't need to be in years past. But since we were taken over by our current owner, he's become a Kool-Aid drinker, incapable of any independent or critical thinking. I fear all communications with him nowadays and would rather risk losing an account than ask him for help or advice, since I know any communication with him is 95% likely to end in my getting yelled at or threatened with my job. That's how bad it is with him now.

You should have heard him last week on a conf. call to our team, reading off company talking points, trying to spin the layoffs we just had. It was downright insulting. "Not downsizing, rightsizing. We have the exact same headcount we had on this day last year, so it's really nothing different." Yeah, tell those 19 people that.

I've been consulting for 14 of the past 17 years. I always use an hourly rate calculation as the basis of any project bid. It's rare that anyone wants to buy a day or a few hours, but it happens, and usually leads to a project assignment. Or job offer.

Remember when you're an outside consultant you don't get benefits such as healthcare, vacation time, holiday pay, etc, etc, etc. So if you are only asking a little more than what you were making you just took a cut in pay for the same work.

If they 'lay' you off, give you adequate notice, compensation and a good reference letter, then I would help them out for a limited time. If they tell you to walk and then phone you, tell them you are willing to come in for set period of time, at a rate you feel is satisfactory, PAID UP FRONT to help them out. If they refuse then tell them not to call as you don't work for them anymore. And by the way, the place to start on consulting rates is around 3+ Times what your hourly rate would have been

I always figured I was working for myself when working for a company. I owe no loyalty to a corp, unless for my funeral they lower the co flag to half mast and give half a day off with pay for everybody to attend my funeral.

However for my own reputation I would act in a professional fashion with them. I would have a consulting contract made up at a steep rate of compensation. If someone asked to help out as a manipulation I would say I am sorry but I am currently unavailable to help out at this time. I would love to add I am too busy collecting unemployment at the moment it pays better then what I am currently making by helping you out...but I wouldn't say that...

Ohh BTW Ricky...your boss who has now partaken of the Kool Aid is SCARED that he is going to wind up in that unemployment line with you. So to survival he would sell his own daughter to the arabs.

After reading this thread ...You might wana think about starting your own business. You might not get rich, but you live free and rise or fall on your own efforts.


Ohhh BTW: Please remit $400 for my 20 minutes of time devoted to providing an analysis of your current dilemma.

The trend is going that way - either lump sum fees or GMP (Guaranteed Maximum Pricing). Very few places are actually willing to pay an open-ended hourly or hourly-with-multiplier fee structure these days.

I have no problem whatsoever with a lump-sum (per-project) fee, but you damn well better write strong contracts that specifically outline scope of basic services. Otherwise clients can (and will) come back to you demanding that you "redo" things five and six times and think it's all part of the basic service - there goes your fee.

I typically will spell this stuff out in nauseating detail right down to number of site visits, number of revisions allowed, even number of sheets in a drawing set (if repro costs aren't split out as a reimbursible, which a lot of cheapo developers are skimping on now too, and it gets expensive as hell).

It's a tough thing trying to foster good, friendly amicable client relations while simultaneously insisting that they sign a very tight, limiting contract that basically says "I don't trust you to not d1ck me over". Tough thing to do, but an absolutely necessary one. Trust me on this - been there, done that.

Should know tomorrow or Tues. if the axe is gonna fall. My phone ain't ringing off the hook with interview requests.

Rick,

I wish you luck.

Honestly, I'm not that bummed over it. If I keep my job, I'll keep making money and that makes it a lot easier to look for a better job. If I get canned, it will SUCK financially and I'll have to work two $hitty jobs for a while. But at least I know I'll be done with this dead end job forever.

Did you ever talk to a local lawyer about your non-compete? Good luck this week.

Way premature for that, since I haven't gotten any interest from the two competitors I could stand to work for. One says they don't have field sales people, that all are based in VA or MD. I ain't relocating (again) for anyone. The other asked for my resume when I sent an inquiry through their site. But no reply yet. I'll let them worry about a non-compete if that time comes.

Rick,
I have the feeling you will land on your feet and be in a better place in a year or so. A silver lining is like you stated, you will be done with this dead end job. Whether your job is intact or not you are already moving on and that is a good thing.

Best of luck.

Rick, Good luck buddy.
My thoughts are with you!

Regardless of results, time to move on outa there; soon!

fwiw guys, I'm not much of a big player in the consulting field; been mostly self employed and with the exception of one gig that I'm doing, all my consulting jobs have been on a handshake. Not a bad one in the bunch. People hire me for results and that's what I give them.

Go Rick Go!

Sad thing is that I really enjoy what I do. When I saw you in SB, I was in my groove, visiting clients on the bike, riding around CA. I love doing that stuff. The core of my job is great. It's just the corp. BS that goes with it. And I'm one of the lucky ones who works remotely from home. I haven't even seen my boss since last June. I can't imagine how bad it is for the folks who have to be in the office every day.

Thanks for the well wishes, guys. Things will definitely shake out, one was or another.

I feel for you man - really. I "saw it coming" all last December and it was distressing watching management prattle on and do nothing, being completely unresponsive (as they had been for months) to my increasingly urgent requests that we refocus our efforts on other, secure areas like healthcare and/or education and get the F away from retail/restaurant/general commercial work. It was maddening. It was like being the proverbial scientist who finds the meteor hurtling towards earth, then shouting the warning to everyone only to be ignored - and then killed himself by the same meteor.

It sucks. It's a lousy feeling. But believe as I do that it'll be the best thing that ever happens to you. In my case, I'll feel a whole lot better when my next gig appears, but I have NO DOUBT that getting out of that dead-end place was beneficial to me long-term. It's hard to have that point of view when you're either unemployed or underemployed, but have faith - eventually something will show itself to you to prove it was a good thing in the grand scheme.

I've had two "great jobs" too. When I was flying cargo I felt much like you - best job in the world when the wheels were in the wells and I was away from the company B.S. at headquarters. Everything else about it stunk. At my last place the first year was great - being a company liason to clients all around the western U.S., building up a ton of airline miles, etc. Good while it lasted but unfortunately I can't control the stupidity of my former boss in not seeing that the gravy train was hurtling towards the wall at 100 mph.

Chin up man. FWIW I applied at In-N-Out too, but haven't heard back. It was one of my last two or three jobs in CA that I bothered looking at.

How familiar this story is yet I am 2 months on the other side. Late January I got a call form my boss to meet him at the airport. I had about 6 million in projects and was closing fast on 2.5 million. I assumed he was flying in to discuss details regarding these projects. Get there and he's waiting outside, says to park the car int he garage so we can talk. Walk back to the terminal, we sit down and all he has a manila folder in hand. Says that he's taking a new direction and that my services are no longer needed. And that was it, no severance, no warning, nothing. Asked where I parked the company car, where's the laptop and the cell phone. As he's walking away he ask oh by the way do you need a ride somewhere? Luckily my wife was able to get me after a 2 hour wait at the airport.

At least you have a warning, I had nothing. Now later I found out that he is moving more to the manufacturing side, scooping up all of my sales , not paying any commissions. Used my salary to pay for more technicians.

So here I am 2 months later still looking for work. By the way tis happened 2 weeks after I got married.

That sucks!

While I was on my honeymoon, our company decided to comp all work in relation to the CA wildfires raging at that time, as a PR and marketing stunt. No one in mgt. asked how we sales folks felt about being forced to donate our commission checks for that. When I returned to work and mentioned this to my boss, he said if I hadn't been out of the office on my honeymoon the previous week, I could have been working the phones, getting meetings with those places getting our freebies. I knew that was code for "shut the hell up and don't make a big deal out of it," as no rational person could really think like that.

well hang in there rickster. for every door closing.............anudda opens.

me.............i wouldnt give those clowns the time of day.


or..........if they were on fire, i WOULDNT PISS ON THEM TO PUT THEM OUT!


too many mgrs think that they are god and can handle any problem big or small. what they fail to realize is ITS THE FREEKING EMPLOYEES(ie. salesmen) that make the inroads, start the friendships, cement the bonds, that parlay into purchase orders.

being in sales all of my life, there is no doubt in my mind that the "good ol boy" complex is and always will be in place.

think about it for a second. are you going to buy tooling from some clown who shows up at your door once every 3 months...............or buy tooling from someone who is your friend that on the weekends you go shooting with, drink beer with and dink around with porsches, go hunting with, go fishing with, go bowling with???????etc.

HELL NO! yer going to buy any product from someone you trust, someone who makes you laugh, someone who helps you out thick or thin, any time day or night.

good salesmen that actually work instead of golf all day are very very hard to find. i used to have to ride herd on my salesmen and distributors like i was a freeking babysitter. creative expense accounts, creative call reports, creative excuses for not getting the job done.

my attitude.............RECESSION HELL! SELL!

companies and corporations are ALWAYS HIRING PEOPLE no matter the state of the economy.

when sales are down you get out on the streets and pound the pavement.

any company that has mutiple salesmen call on accounts is suspect of running a shoddy operation by the customer. the customer wants to be able to rely on salesmen, not some merry go round of salesmen calling on him every month and he cant even remember their names.

remember start netwerking NOW! go see nadine at scottsdale gun club. if i hear of anything else i will e-you.