Pelican Parts Forums

Pelican Parts Forums (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/)
-   Off Topic Discussions (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/)
-   -   FIA Diffuser ruling..... (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/469039-fia-diffuser-ruling.html)

Sarc 04-15-2009 04:52 AM

FIA Diffuser ruling.....
 
'Double-decker' diffusers declared legal
Wednesday 15th April 2009

In a ruling that could have major implications on the outcome of the 2009 World Championship, the International Court of Appeal has ruled that the diffusers of Brawn GP, Toyota and Williams are legal.

The verdict means there will now be a major scramble from the rest of the pack to get their diffusers up to standard.

In a short statement, the FIA declared:

'The FIA International Court of Appeal has decided to deny the appeals submitted against decisions numbered 16 to 24 taken by the Panel of the Stewards on 26 March at the 2009 Grand Prix of Australia and counting towards the 2009 FIA Formula One World Championship.

'Based on the arguments heard and evidence before it, the Court has concluded that the Stewards were correct to find that the cars in question comply with the applicable regulations.

'Full reasons for this decision will be provided in due course.'

The ruling means the teams keep the points they have won in the two races so far this season with Brawn GP's Jenson Button leading the Drivers' Championship after two victories.

At the centre of Tuesday debate aired in front of five judges, and with a remarkable 38 other personnel present - either legal counsel, team or FIA representatives - was the legality of the diffuser currently used by Brawn GP, Toyota and Williams.

The device has helped Button win the opening two grands prix of the season in Australia and Malaysia, and with Brawn GP heading the constructors' ahead of Toyota.

Although Ferrari, Renault, Red Bull and BMW Sauber argued fervently against the design, the judges have sided with the FIA and the stewards who had already determined the part was legal.

That has left Brawn GP, along with Toyota and Williams, free to race in this weekend's Chinese Grand Prix in Shanghai.

legion 04-15-2009 04:54 AM

I had a feeling this would be the verdict. Brawn is Max and Bernie's new baby.

VincentVega 04-15-2009 05:10 AM

Please.

This is exactly what makes F1 interesting. The smart guys read the rules and found a way to take advantage of a grey area. Others werent so brave in their interpretation and are now paying the price. No rules were broken, no cheating.

legion 04-15-2009 05:14 AM

Certain teams are punished for being brave. Other teams are rewarded.

It has less to do with what the risk was and more with who took the risk.

VincentVega 04-15-2009 05:35 AM

Keep telling yourself that, it's a conspiracy!

I'll just enjoy the racing, btw, it's great this year.

sammyg2 04-15-2009 05:44 AM

If ferrari had come up with this diffuser design instead of brawn, some folks would be screaming conspiracy and favoritism.

legion 04-15-2009 05:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sammyg2 (Post 4607606)
If ferrari had come up with this diffuser design instead of brawn, some folks would be screaming conspiracy and favoritism.

And if McLaren had come up with the design as well, there would have been a convoluted ruling that made the Ferrari diffuser legal and the McLaren one illegal.

jyl 04-15-2009 05:54 AM

You're having to work pretty hard to fit every race penalty and FIA ruling into your conspiracy theory.

legion 04-15-2009 06:07 AM

It's very simple.

If the FIA has any excuse to penalize McLaren, they exact the most severe penalty they can think of without exception. (Like a $100 million fine, or an after-the-fact time penalty when a there was plenty of time to give a stop-and-go, or excluding them from a race for something that all teams do.)

If Ferrari does something, first they will try not to penalize them or shift the blame to the other team involved in the incident. If the incident is egregiously Ferrari's fault, then they will try to apply the least severe penaly possible, even when it breaks the FIA's own rules to do so. (Like give a small fine when the rules clearly call for a time penalty, or penalizing the car that had the right-of-way in the pits.)

Sarc 04-15-2009 06:26 AM

I have a hard time believing he's Bernie's baby when Bernie has publicly spoken out against the diffusers. If I remember correctly, aren't you the one claiming Bernie always has Ferrari's interests at heart? Or has that stance been ammended to whoever's getting the best of your boys from Woking? ;)



FROM AUTOSPORT:

Rivals teams rejected an offer from Ross Brawn to tidy up the technical regulations 12 months ago, and head off the possibility of double decker diffuser designs being adopted.

While the row over diffusers continues to overshadow the sport, ahead of a hearing of the FIA's International Court of Appeal in April, Brawn has revealed that at a meeting of technical directors last March, he proposed modifying the rules to ensure that proper limits were introduced on areas teams could exploit.

"In March 2008 that was offered," said Brawn, when asked by AUTOSPORT about the matter.

"If I'm frank I didn't say 'look we are going to do this diffuser if you don't accept this rule' because I'm not going to tell people what we're doing, but I explained that I felt that we should have a different set of rules to simplify what needs to be done.

"I offered them and they were rejected, so my conscience is very clear. And those rules that I put on the table would have stopped a lot of things. It would have stopped the diffuser, it would have stopped all those bargeboards around the front, and it would have cleaned the cars up.

"Because it was clear that when we started to work on the regulations that there were things that you could do, and we needed to perhaps clean them up, but nobody was interested. They are interested now."

Brawn GP has been protested, along with Williams and Toyota, at the opening two races of the season for the diffuser design that rival teams do not believe are legal. The stewards at both the Australian and Malaysian Grands Prix, however, have stated that they believe the designs are within the regulations.

Despite what happened with the offer to change the rules last year, Brawn says he has not been frustrated by the protests, although he has expressed some disappointment at critical comments aimed his way by Flavio Briatore.

"I don't like some of the comments some of the other team principals are making but they are uneducated and uninformed so if they looked at the facts then they would realise that," he said.

"But I have always tried to wear two hats. One is what is good for Formula 1 and I wear that hat for a certain period, then I take that hat off and I wear the 'what's good for my team' one be it Ferrari or whoever it is.

"For sure there are periods when I am very happy to say what is good for Formula 1 and that is the period a year to 18 months before you start doing a car. What's the best thing to do?

"When we get in to designing the car and actually creating it, you can't go back then and say 'oh we have found this great new feature I had better stop it', its a different hat you have to wear.

"And everybody in F1 I hope does that. When there is plenty of time you try and get the rules in the best shape you can, and when the rules are decided you have to go flat out in producing the best car you can within those regulations."

MotoSook 04-15-2009 09:29 AM

There should have never been all the up roar about the diffuser. If it had been just one team who interpreted the tech rule it might have been suspicious. Brawn GP wasn't the only one...they just happened to have all the right combinations to win. It is the "unfair advantage" that is well within the rules. Other teams just weren't smart enough....end of story...go whine about it to the designers on your team.

The Brawn cars are fast everywhere around the track...not just in the corners where downforce generated by the diffuser would be more advantageous them.

911pcars 04-15-2009 09:50 AM

I hope Button and Barichello duke it out for the title. That would be sufficient payback for their patience and the criticism they endured driving the slug Hondas the past few years.

This years F1 season will be very interesting.

Sherwood

David 04-15-2009 10:03 AM

Funny how the three teams that weren't involved with writing the rules, Brawn, Toyota, and Williams, have the good diffusers.


Sounds like Briatore doesn't really know much about the technical side of F1. Steve Matchett made a comment in one of his books that was something like: Steve was working on some Webers off his personal car and when Briatore saw him he didn't know it wasn't a part off an F1 car :D

NICKG 04-15-2009 12:13 PM

if i had an f1 team..Briatore would be my choice to run it ..he is a superb manager and just because he does not know the technology, doesn't preclude him from ANYONE"S list to run things..

911pcars 04-15-2009 12:50 PM

...besides, Briatore's taste in fancy women is impeccable.

Sherwood

tsiegwart 04-15-2009 12:54 PM

Souk,

I agree with your assessment on the decision to keep them legal. Brawn stayed with in the legal interpretation of the rules and came up with a better design.

I just wanted to point out that good aerodynamics on a car provides the maximum down-force with minimum drag. The Ferrari may be able generate as much down force as the Brawn by adjusting the rear wing, but the cost is a high degree of drag and therefore a big negative impact on straight-line speed. This was Honda's problem last year. The car could generate down-force, but only with a very high amount of aero drag.

The diffusor creates a large amount of down force with relatively low drag. So actually it helps everywhere on the track and may even help the most on the straights.

I love F1, but these days, aerodynamic engineering is what dominates the sport above all the other technologies on the car. I'm not sure if I like that or not.

I do like the way the rules are changing and I'm loving this season already. It's really fun to watch. The racing throughout the field is much better and you can clearly see that driver's skills are playing a much bigger role this year. I see many more mistakes being made by drivers and I like it. I think it is more entertaining.

Aerkuld 04-15-2009 03:45 PM

I'm pleased the ruling went the way it did. It's refreshing to see the shake-up.
I thought Ferrari's argument that it would be really expensive for them to have to redesign their car to incorporate a new diffuser was a bit lame. Wouldn't it cost the other teams a lot if they had to design it out?

To be totally fair, I think that three of the teams saw a great opportunity to take advantage of ambiguity in the rules. That is what F1 is about, maximizing your car to the rules. As for everyone else, they missed out - tough luck.

It is strange to see Ferrari on the loosing side of a FIA decision though. I hope they can come back and get the Kimster to mount a challenge.

It is looking like a GREAT season!!!

jyl 04-15-2009 04:07 PM

Creative rule reading is part of the sport. Witness the 935.

Aerkuld 04-15-2009 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jyl (Post 4608897)
Creative rule reading is part of the sport...

That's what I try telling the organizers of my son's pinewood derby, but do they listen?

AndyK! 04-15-2009 07:38 PM

I'ts quite refreshing to have some new faces on the podium instead of the usual McLaren / Ferrari race with the rest of the field having no chance. The 09 season has the potential to be one of the best seasons in years and I welcome the competition.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 06:00 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2025 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website


DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.