Bill, two quick notes for you:

-Check out Cook's Farm Dairy in Independence Twp. (Seymour Lk Rd Between Sashabaw and M-15. They sell really good dairy goods (including ice cream) both retail and wholesale. A couple of small places by me serve their ice cream and keep people passing DQ and soft serve places to get the good stuff.

-Cup cakes and fresh baked goods in the winter could generate some revenue and if your marketing (image) is in line you could become quite a fixture in the community in one year.

Bill, I sent you mail. I Hope Tommy Vear can help you.

No, I do not think they would help. Teenagers do not care if they loose a job. Are you going to press charges against them?

Also to compete with the big chains you have to offer something better. You have to sell yourself and your concept to the public.

It's been a CRAZY weekend. I'll give him a call on Monday and leave a VM if he's out. Thank you for the contact!

mudman - thanks for another possible supplier. I want to see what happens with the one I've already selected. But I have to do a lot of remodel work first. Do you do any of that? Maybe we can work something out if you do? PM me on some of the things you can handle...

peppy - I probably won't prosecute them all. I'm planning on hiring someone in the family or a close family friend. I hope that 'connection' helps keep them honest. But eventually I will have to hire strangers but after it's established. So is it a waste of money to put in cameras? I don't think so...

Personally I'd keep the personal out of it. This is business. Close ties can over complicate things.

A lot easier to fire a stranger than it is a family member.

You'd have better success making sure your manager is properly incentivized/motivated.

You are probably right but, since being robbed blind is a major thing, I CAN'T quit my day job for a while I don't know what else to do. I really need advice on this. Especially from people that have gone through it. Maybe you have, so please enlighten me.

I don't want to hire family but I think they would have a 'connection' and maybe not steal. But a stranger, why not. They don't care. Of course if I catch either one stealing I'd get rid of them and a stranger wouldn't care but family might. Of course it could cause a rift but if I caught them red handed it would be on them and not on me. Thoughts?

It would take you all day to go through a video tape each day (good idea, but you need to know when and what to look for)...might as well be there. Milt was right. Best bet is have the oncoming shift count cups/cones at the end of each shift and compare with register receipts. Also, you will know the yield of raw materials. Then look at videos when you have obvious discrepancies. Best bet is to hire the right folks though.
Down south, Baskin Robins Ice Cream and Dunkin Donut shops are often combined to keep the business traffic coming in year round and provides sales opportunity for mornings before people would be eating ice cream. The same folks are able to work both areas and share cash registers, seating, bathrooms, etc..

Honestly, I don't plan on going through ALL the video. Some sure. It's really a scare tactic at this point and a reminder that someone is watching. I may look through it for the busy days and scan through it on other days picking different (random) times and days. I agree it makes sense to have shifts count and record things because the oncoming shift wouldn't want to be blamed for shortcomings. That would narrow it down to who is actually doing the stealing...

Bill,
Obviously, in the vending business you need to trust your employees with LOTS of cash each day.

There is no easy way to set your mind at ease on this topic.


I suspected a coouple of the guys that worked for me but I couldn't get enough evidence to make it worth doing battle. No, your people won't be unionised but you can get alot of info in an interview if you know the right questions to ask.


Sure, a person can lie in an interview but knowing that the cameras are there is a serious deterrent.I have some "tricks" that I can share with you to test employees' honesty.

Sure I'd like know some of these 'tricks'. You can PM me or email to me or just wait till I see you next time. I'm in no hurry because I have to secure a place and remodel it first. So it'll be a while before I'm ready for those steps..

Does anyone have a suggestion on a security camera for this business? Doesn't have to be too fancy but something I can go on line to check it.

Just a suggestion:

Contract with a local alarm company.

We had Sonitrol at my office in Clio. You can get video recording plus mulitple cameras.

The Lansing office has the same setup except that my old boss had it set up so he could view it from his home computer. Sorry, I don't recall what are monthly charge was but it wasn't much for what we were gettting.


I know this sounds like overkill but it really is a secure way to watch your business when you aren't there. the

You have to be careful with expenses and try to manage your potential downside.

Small shops like that, the problem usually is it is a ton of work and you are working 2+ weeks out of the month to pay your landlord (and then 13 more days to pay your employees, taxes, overhead, etc).

I'd be super careful about minimizing your downside, particularly with the lease. A lot of landlords want a long term lease (many years). They also usually want a PERSONAL GUARANTEE.

The personal guarantee issue is one that almost all start up business people do not take seriously enough. It can and often does lead to total financial ruin. If you have PG'd it, and the business goes under, turns out to not be profitable, or you find it simply isn't making enough money to justify the work and headache, you will be trapped by the PG.

You'll find that the LL won't let you out of the lease, and it will be difficult to find a new tenant to pay what you are paying. If it is a multiyear lease, the total obligation owing can be well into the 6 figures, and the LL WILL sue you personally to get it.

Try to not sign a PG if at all possible. And, remember, if they insist, there are still things you can do to bargain on it. For example, have it burn off after a year or two. That drastically limits your downside.

Think long and hard before signing any personal guarantee on any significant lease for space for a start up business.

I really appreciate your input. But the place I'm looking at I would be buying. I agree with your post though.

Still kind of the same thing, unless you are paying cash for the place. Will the income be enough to carry the debt on the building, and if the business goes away, can it be rented out to carry the debt?

It sounds like the place is pretty small, and hopefully not too expensive so that it can't financially kill you, even if the biz goes sideways.

This is excellent advice. My PG for Little Traveler World Headquarters disappeared after the first year.

I make a point of paying my rent in person every month. It really helps with the landlord relationship. He asks how things are going, wants to know if the building needs anything, we talk a bit, etc. It has definitely worked in my favor over the last 3 years.

Back in my prior life I was in fast food. My favorite part of operations was food cost. I had one store where we just could not nail down our unexplained losses. Freezer stayed locked, waste was in-line, production was to specs. We had a crackerjack kitchen team, that had the routine nailed.

Still, week after week, expensive inventory was vaporizing. Eventually we caught one of the kitchen crew stealing a small amount of food. We decided to make a nice big show of her being hauled out in cuffs by the police.

The food cost problem cleared up overnight, and we never had a problem with it again. Establishing a no-nonsense tone at the top is critical. All the high-tech gizmos are great, but if the staff feel that the man behind the curtain is asleep, or has no spine, they just get even more brazen. It is really fun watching video footage of someone hauling a $35 case of burger meat out your backdoor, as they actually take time out to flip off the camera.

Yes, it is pretty small and the cost of it won't break anything. If it's a flop it'll just be very disappointing. However, that IS NOT my plan. I WANT this to work! At least I'll own the bldg to lease, try my hand in something else, etc. That isn't what I want. I really want this to succeed. But worse case I can sell the equipment and inventory and try something else. Again, this IS NOT MY PLAN.

Of course that's not the plan, it never is. That's why so many entrepreneurs never even bother looking at or negotiating things like PGs, they view them as irrelevant b/c they are going to succeed, so they just sign away.

I actually have some experience with ice cream stores, not personally but helping out someone who started one up. Theirs was a Carvel franchise, one of the first ones (maybe the first one) on the west coast.

You probably don't want to know how it ended up, but I'll tell you if you are interested.

Not that you're planning to fail, but USED restaurant equpment is ultra cheap. No need to buy new.

Amazing some of the bargains you can find.

Check it out...14 tub freezer for $800; waffle cone maker $400...right in Kalamazoo:D

http://kalamazoo.craigslist.org/bfs/1126143064.html

and more chit in cebntral michigan...

http://centralmich.craigslist.org/search/sss?query=ice%20cream%20freezer