Braking in the rain - motorcycle

[cmccuist]

My son came home from college this weekend. We had a few errands to run and he wanted to ride my Honda Magna (he has a Sportster). So we took off. I followed him in my car.

Well, It started to rain and the roads were pretty slick. He was coming to a red light when all of a sudden, the bike started to fishtail. He tried to correct, but went down. Thank God he was only going about 10 mph! He was more embarrassed than hurt. He was wearing a helmet, jeans and a t-shirt. I was horrified!

My question is, what is the proper front brake/rear brake ratio when it's slick out? Do you favor the rear brake? I ride a lot in the rain (a reality here in TX), and never really had a problem, but he's only been riding about 6 months and doesn't ride in the rain at all.

[legion]

My solution is not to ride in the rain.

[Dottore]

A b s

[willtel]

There is no ideal proper ratio for all conditions, it would change based on the incline of the road, road surface, even where your body is placed on the bike. I know on a bicycle 70% of your braking power comes from the front brake.

What wheel locked up to cause the slide? If it was the rear it could be that he was just too shy of the front brake because of the conditions. Also the first few minutes of a rain storm are the most dangerous because all of the oil and dirt are still on the surface of the road along with the water. Once it has rained some and rinsed the street traction actually improves.

[dhoward]

Brake early. Be smooth. I tend to brake rear more heavily when it's slick, although it's easier for me to modulate the front...
Plan ahead.

[masraum]

Glad only his pride was hurt. Sounds like a great education for a young guy on a bike. Hopefully it'll keep him on his toes and reinforce the respect for bikes that I'm sure he already has. My kids on a motorcycle would terrify me.

[Mr_Wizard]

Brake early. Be smooth.

+1000

Plan ahead, give extra stopping distance, use both breaks together. During NC summers you will get caught in the rain. I always have my rain gear in the saddlebags. If it has not rained in awhile i pull over for 15mins or so to let the rain wash the oil from the road

[LeeH]

Has he taken the MSF course?

[vash]

stay out of the middle of the lane where the oil concentrates. the ratio of front/rear braking is the same as in dry. IME. sounds like your kids got on the rears too hard.

glad he wasnt hurt.

[varmint]

have good tires. don't be leaned over. brake slowly.

there is no real secret or trick to it.

[JavaBrewer]

I rarely used the back brake - almost never in slippery conditions. Too easy to lock the back tire. That said in dry conditions I did use the back brake but only to maintain balance. Stay off the road center (oil), road paint, and brake with the front early. Sounds like your son needed to get the back tire rolling again (let go of brake) but was pressed for time/space at the stop light. Good thing the speed was low and he was unharmed.

[Rot 911]

What David said. In rain, on gravel or sand, stay off the back brake. What you described is exactly what happens when you use the back brake in slick conditions.

[TerryH]

Most of my riding days were before ABS. Learned quickly that rain, gravel, ice are all good reasons to avoid the front brake completely if turning. Even driving straight, unless conditions are optimum, limit or eliminate front brake. If the rear wheel locks, you don't automatically lose control like the front. As has been mentioned, conditions dictate braking points and adjustments are necessary.

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by cmccuist

He was wearing a helmet, jeans and a t-shirt. I was horrified!

My question is why the hell would you let him on a bike like that? Braking technique in the wet can be fixed with practice (though it always is sketchy). Riding without proper gear is usually fixed by loss of skin or worse.

[sammyg2]

High performance motorcycles typically have high performance tires. Just as with a car, they are often not ideal for wet conditions. (edit, high performance being the honda, not the harley. All they can do is make gasoline into noise).
Putting all weather tires can hurt the dry performance. Could that be a contributing factor here?

[air-cool-me]

I use alot of back brake when its wet out... then once the bikes sliding in the mud... nail the gas and try and stay on top of it!... Dirt bikes are fun!

wait.. you mean on the road\track?

I though everyone knew the front brake stops the bike and the back brake works great for settling the chassis and countering some nose dive.. but not much else.

[ramonesfreak]

probably been said above: one must be very aware of oil accumulation in the middle of the lane. I do not have ABS breaks but I know for a fact that my wheel would never lock up unless i really got on it too hard... but thats my bike.

My initial thought was that he was used to the Harley needing more pressure than your bike..... But that seems unlikely. I had a sportster and the rear break would lock up all the time to the point where i could skid it like a BMX bike for fun with little effort. which was one of many reasons i felt that bike to be highly dangerous

on my current bike, if its wet, i feather both breaks very very gently, well ahead of where i need to stop and i stay clear of the center of the lane

i do suppose its possible that your back brake is more sensitive than his Harley and he used too much pressure

[flatbutt]

The front brake is the one to use in most all conditions for straight line stopping and speed scrubbing. I have found that many cruiser riders use the rear brake almost exclusively but I don't know why. Locking the rear brake will almost always result in fish tailing, especially when wet.

[javadog]

In the rain, you can use a little more rear brake, as the total braking force is less, therefore you transfer less weight to the front. Having said that, it's easier to lock a wheel if the brakes are applied too quickly and most riders have an easier time gauging the amount of braking when the front brake is used, as they typically estimate the mount of braking by sensing the amount of dive in the front. There a fewer obvious clues to modulating the rear brake. Not to mention most peoples' hands are more sensitive than their feet.

A locked rear brake is not going to necessarily put the bike down. Most instructors will teach you to keep it locked until you stop, in which case you can ride the thing a considerable distance that way. Locking the front brake will sually put you down pretty quickly, especially if you are leaned at all, or have a little steering applied. It's possible he locked the rear first and then panicked a little and perhaps grabbed a little too much front brake. Or, if he had the front brakes on too, he might have lost the front when he tried to steer into the slide caused by locking the rear brake.

I'd suggest that he take both MSF courses, if he hasn't done so already. If he's taken them and it's been a while, have him take them again. That's the kind of stuff they teach.

JR

[javadog]

Originally Posted by nostatic

My question is why the hell would you let him on a bike like that? Braking technique in the wet can be fixed with practice (though it always is sketchy). Riding without proper gear is usually fixed by loss of skin or worse.

+1. Or, don't protect what you figure you can do without for the rest of your life....

JR