Any Johnny Cash fans out there?

Dottore · 05-03-2009, 07:12 PM

So we're sitting around drinking bourbon and listening to Johnny tonight, and all of us were perplexed by lyrics we had heard a hundred times, but to which we had never given much thought.

So what the hell does this mean?

Quote:

And the whirlwind is in the thorn trees
The virgins are all trimming their wicks
The whirlwind is in the thorn trees
It's hard for thee to kick against the pricks
Till Armageddon no shalom no shalom

Unquote

The rest of "When the Man Comes Around" is very transparent—and a brilliant song—but this text in the middle had us all puzzled.

Would welcome your input.

jtfreels · 05-03-2009, 07:19 PM

Regarding the virgins take a look at Matthew 25:1

porsche4life · porsche4life's Garage

I like some of his stuff. His version of hurt almost makes me cry

varmint · 05-03-2009, 07:25 PM

saw cash first in junior high. him and june and even mother maybelle came out for a song. i think they were all on pills. still a kick ass show. for years the only tapes in my car were folsom prison and X/live at the whiskey a-go-go.

then, twenty years on he plays the viper room and every poser fag in an ironically worn trucker hat starts calling him a god. got on my nerves.

Dottore · 05-03-2009, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by porsche4life

I like some of his stuff. His version of hurt almost makes me cry

Yes. Brilliant!

Hats off to Rick Rubin for coaxing those late albums of of Johnny.

porsche4life · porsche4life's Garage

I remember an interview with Trent Reznor after Johnny sang that. Trent said he felt like someone had stolen a girlfriend from him. I must say that Trent performing this song live is powerful as well.

legion · 05-03-2009, 07:49 PM

Hurt was on the same album as Closer, and Nine Inch Nails sang the soundtrack to my high school years.

I remember flipping on the TV before work some time in 2001 or so (I was still in an apartment at the time). As I'm flipping through the stations, I come across a familiar song from a new voice. Is that Johnny Cash singing a Nine Inch Nails song!?

Though both Johnny and Trent sing the same words (well, almost, Cash does change one line), the same song has a drastically different meaning. In one version, it is a young man voicing his regrets and wondering if he can change. In another version, it is an old man voices his regrets and seeing that he cannot change.

The original version of the song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oc1mP4ae2Io

m21sniper · 05-03-2009, 07:56 PM

Johnny Cash covering 9 inch nails:

Dottore · 05-03-2009, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m21sniper

Johnny Cash covering 9 inch nails:

This is your problem snipe. You neither read nor think before you post.

m21sniper · 08:07 PM

I posted a jonny cash song, it's got nothing to do with your point.

I posted it because it's brilliant, plain and simple.

Again, got nothing to do with your point.

K?

PS: My browser often does not load all the posts in a thread unless i enter it and hit refresh, so all i saw was your first post, and said, "ah, jonnhy cash, good chance to post one of my all time fave songs by him." So sure, i didn't "think before posting", but should i really have to when i'm just posting a music video? I think not.

So hey....Lighten up francis.

m21sniper · 05-03-2009, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by legion

Hurt was on the same album as Closer, and Nine Inch Nails sang the soundtrack to my high school years.

I remember flipping on the TV before work some time in 2001 or so (I was still in an apartment at the time). As I'm flipping through the stations, I come across a familiar song from a new voice. Is that Johnny Cash singing a Nine Inch Nails song!?

Though both Johnny and Trent sing the same words (well, almost, Cash does change one line), the same song has a drastically different meaning. In one version, it is a young man voicing his regrets and wondering if he can change. In another version, it is an old man voices his regrets and seeing that he cannot change.

The original version of the song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oc1mP4ae2Io

BTW, i disagree with your conclusion.

Cash's version is an old man singing about all that he worked a lifetime for meaning absolutely nothing and, in the end, being absolutely alone.

With nothing. Everything he cared for gone...like he will soon be.

He is singing about death.

speeder · speeder's Garage

Is this a serious question? I have 2 ears and a heart, don't I?

The older his stuff is, the better it is, IMO. And it's all really good. Rick Rubin was a match made in heaven at the end of the road for him. Rick is a nice guy. A friend of mine was on his label, (American Records), and had his 10 y.o. son in tow when he stopped by the label one day. Cash was there and hit it off w/ the tyke, long story short the kid is now 20 and has a signed guitar that was a gift from JC. It's that "one thing" that he would grab if the house was on fire.

911Rob · 911Rob's Garage

My parents loved Johnny and I've listened to him all my life.
Love the guy, rock solid other than his first marriage.

The song is about end times.
As for your Qs Dott; I've no idea either? Some research shows that the whirlwind in the thorn tree would be about how God can cast a harsh hand?
The virgins trimming their wicks refers to Mathews25, whereby the wise virgins went to the groom prepared with oil in their lamps and properly trimmed wicks; however the foolish virgins did not and lost out on the opportunity to be with the groom; cast out also by God.

So, I'm thinking the verse has to do with how harsh God can be to the unwise and unprepared? You?

LINK: when the man comes around
Lyrics:

Quote:

And I heard, as it were, the noise of thunder: One of the four beasts saying: "Come and see." And I saw. And behold, a white horse.
There's a man goin' 'round takin' names. An' he decides who to free and who to blame. Everybody won't be treated all the same. There'll be a golden ladder reaching down. When the man comes around.

The hairs on your arm will stand up. At the terror in each sip and in each sup. For you partake of that last offered cup, Or disappear into the potter's ground. When the man comes around.

Hear the trumpets, hear the pipers. One hundred million angels singin'. Multitudes are marching to the big kettle drum. Voices callin', voices cryin'. Some are born an' some are dyin'. It's Alpha's and Omega's Kingdom come.

And the whirlwind is in the thorn tree. The virgins are all trimming their wicks. The whirlwind is in the thorn tree. It's hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

Till Armageddon, no Shalam, no Shalom. Then the father hen will call his chickens home. The wise men will bow down before the throne. And at his feet they'll cast their golden crown. When the man comes around.

Whoever is unjust, let him be unjust still. Whoever is righteous, let him be righteous still. Whoever is filthy, let him be filthy still. Listen to the words long written down, When the man comes around.

Hear the trumpets, hear the pipers. One hundred million angels singin'. Multitudes are marchin' to the big kettle drum. Voices callin', voices cryin'. Some are born an' some are dyin'. It's Alpha's and Omega's Kingdom come.

And the whirlwind is in the thorn tree. The virgins are all trimming their wicks. The whirlwind is in the thorn tree. It's hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

In measured hundredweight and penny pound. When the man comes around.

And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts, And I looked and behold: a pale horse. And his name, that sat on him, was Death. And Hell followed with him.

Apparantly the line about the thorn tree came from a dream about the Queen:

Quote:

If memory serves, it says in the booklet that he got the "The whirlwind is in the thorn trees" part from a dream. I think it was queen elizabeth who said to him in the dream "You're just like a whirlwind in a thorn tree".

Quote:

Mathew 25:
Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
2And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
3They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
4But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
5While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
6And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet Him.
7Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
8And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
9But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
10And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
11Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
13Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.
14For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.
15And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.
16Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.
17And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.
18But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money.
19After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.
20And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.
21His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
22He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.
23His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
24Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
25And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.
26His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
27Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
28Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
29For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
30And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
31When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Shaun @ Tru6 · 05-04-2009, 03:55 AM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa

Dottore · 05-04-2009, 05:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 911Rob

My parents loved Johnny and I've listened to him all my life.
Love the guy, rock solid other than his first marriage.

The song is about end times.

Thanks Rob.

Of course I get what the song is about.

Now I also get the "virgins trimming their wicks" reference—thanks.

Still don't get the "it's hard for thee to kick against the pricks" reference though.

Max Von · Max Von's Garage

I found this through Google:
A large percentage of people in the first century were tillers of the soil. Oxen were used to work the soil. The prick or goad was a necessary devise. The prick was usually a wooden shaft with a pointed spike (prick) at one end. The man working the ox would position the goad in such a way as to exert influence and control over the ox. You see, if the ox refused the command indicated by the farmer, the goad would be used to jab or prick the ox. Sometimes the ox would refuse this incentive by kicking out at the prick. As result, the prick would be driven deeper into the flesh of the rebellious animal. The more the animal rebelled, the more the animal suffered. Hence, the statement to Saul: "It is hard for thee to kick against the pricks." (Saul was rebelling against God.)
Great song and one of my favorite artists.

Dottore · 05-04-2009, 05:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max Von

The more the animal rebelled, the more the animal suffered. Hence, the statement to Saul: "It is hard for thee to kick against the pricks." (Saul was rebelling against God.)
Great song and one of my favorite artists.

Brilliant. Thank you. This is why I love this forum.

m21sniper · 05-04-2009, 06:07 AM

I listen to this song daily, it's the song on my profile on another forum.

MRM · 05-04-2009, 06:26 AM

I heard Johnny Cash interviewed about Hurt not long before he died. He told about being aproached to cover it and listening to it for the first time. His response was that it was the best anti-drug song he had heard and that he would love to do it, but he would have to do it his way. He didn't think they would agree, but they gave him free rein and the song and video were exactly the way he wanted then. FWIW, he said the song was about drugs.

Most artists will agree that there are many layers to their work, some of which they don't realize. That's one of the beauties of Cash's version of Hurt. With him singing you see so many things: an adict who may or may not be in recovery singing about drugs, an old man close to death recounting his regrets, devout Christian repenting for a life filled with sin, a faithful husband crying over past infidelities, a father worrying about what will happen to his children when he is gone, and a husband looking forward to seeing his wife again soon.

My dad liked Johnny Cash but I never listened to him because I thought he was just country, and I don't care for most of that. But then I heard him on NPR (of all places) a couple of times, and he told about writing the lyrics to Ring of Fire and I started listening to the words. Johnny would have made a great Punk. Now I love him and listen to all I can. Even Folsom Prison has great symbolic imagery. He can layer meaning on even the simplest song.

Dottore · 05-04-2009, 06:37 AM

One of the more bizarre experiences of my life was walking into a bar in St.Gallen Switzerland one night in the middle of a Johnny Cash tribute evening. Picture 8 or 10 Swiss guys all dressed like the man in black, taking turns playing his tunes. All of them were incredibly good, and a couple totally nailed the raspy, "short of breath" sound that he had on his later albums. Brilliant.