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KaptKaos

05-19-2009 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jyl (Post 4671698)

Of course, you could always do the research yourself and arrive at your own conclusions. As an alternative to waiting for someone to tell you.

Or you could provide some dialog for a conversation and not ASSUME that research hasn't been done.

Your tactic is SOP for people that don't want to discuss these things; insult or denigrate the person asking the questions. Nice try.

Danimal16

05-19-2009 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ury914 (Post 4671828)

"green" has become just a marketing ploy. There is an ad on tv for a bank. They said banking on line with them is "green" because you don't write checks. On-line banking has been with us about 15 years but now it is "green".

dd74	05-19-2009 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slakjaw (Post 4671812)

That is why I am asking what people do. I don't do anything to be green. I try not to be wasteful but I also don't make special trips to recycle either.

As you get a busier lifestyle, I believe one's ability to go "green" decreases exponentially.

The best we can do is recycle newspaper and plastic, use less water, and really, that's it.

1) We are in no market for a new car, whether more fuel efficient or not.

2) Public transportation is no option for us. It in fact would cost me more to have a designated parking space at the station and pay subway fair to where I work, as opposed to driving. And driving is faster. Believe me, I've tried.

3) We're starting to use low wattage light bulbs.

4) All the other stuff - solar power, black bottom pools, water-free landscaping, costs a lot for the initial outlay, and the returns aren't immediately realized.

At this point, "green" is still a trend. It's interesting and I like the idea, but it isn't mainstream enough, nor convenient enough, to create a large impact.

Rick Lee

05-19-2009 09:41 AM

I used to recycle my brass and reloaded as much as I could. I also ride a motorcycle as my main transportation and it gets 45-50 mpg. Any kind of gov't. "stimulus" check I get, I recycle by paying other taxes with it, sometime booze and ammo. Basically, I make a concerted effort to do the exact opposite of anything the gov't. wants me to do.

slakjaw

05-19-2009 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy (Post 4671922)

I also removed the air pump and EGR from my Land Cruiser, is that green?

What year is it?

When I put a GM power steering pump on my FJ-60 I was finally able to eliminate the smog pump completely.

Super_Dave_D

05-19-2009 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by URY914 (Post 4671828)

"Green" has become just a marketing ploy. There is an ad on TV for a bank. They said banking on line with them is "green" because you don't write checks. On-line banking has been with us about 15 years but now it is "green".

The new Samsung LED LCD TV is advertised as Eco-Friendly. No lead or Mercury. Energy star compliant........I like it because its damn cool!!!

jyl	05-19-2009 10:30 AM

You have done the research? Let's see the data.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KaptKaos (Post 4672003)

island911

05-19-2009 10:47 AM

"green' is:

a competition of image.

using a dimes worth of hot (fresh) water to recycle a 2cent container.

spending $10k on photovoltaics to save $3,700 in energy costs.

politically pushing florescent bulbs, spiraled into expensive packaging, filled full of heavy-metal gas.

sporting a new, heavy-metal clad, Prius rather that just fixing the old saggy Camery.

telling people how many squares of TP they can use to wipe.

...etc

so, in other words, green is for sarcasm. I thought we all knew that. ;)

onewhippedpuppy

05-19-2009 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slakjaw (Post 4672307)

What year is it?

When I put a GM power steering pump on my FJ-60 I was finally able to eliminate the smog pump completely.

1991. A new belt and about one hour's worth of time is all it took. I still need to fab a block plate to remove the EGR and gut the cats. I can't describe how much better it runs.

carnutzzz

05-19-2009 02:13 PM

It's not easy being green.

KaptKaos

05-19-2009 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jyl (Post 4672390)

You have done the research? Let's see the data.

Do your own research. Do I have to spoon feed it to you?

Need I remind you of your own missive?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jyl (Post 4672390)

Of course, you could always do the research yourself and arrive at your own conclusions. As an alternative to waiting for someone to tell you.

Hugh R

05-19-2009 02:38 PM

Changed some lights to CFLs. The backyard lighting is all CFLs, had a solar pool heater, but it crapped out over the years. Insulated water heater. New energy efficient HVAC, pool heater and pumps, which were replaced as old ones wore out. Putting in some double pane, low e windows and doors this summer, in part to get the Federal Rebate of $1,500 (the only thing I get back from the government).

emcon5

05-19-2009 03:02 PM

I defer to my subject matter expert on all things Green™, Jeremy Clarkson:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/driving/jeremy_clarkson/article6294116.ece?token=null&offset=0&page=1

On the Green-ness of the Honda Insight:

Quote:

The nickel for the battery has to come from somewhere. Canada, usually. It has to be shipped to Japan, not on a sailing boat, I presume. And then it must be converted, not in a tree house, into a battery, and then that battery must be transported, not on an ox cart, to the Insight production plant in Suzuka. And then the finished car has to be shipped, not by Thor Heyerdahl, to Britain, where it can be transported, not by wind, to the home of a man with a beard who thinks he’s doing the world a favour.

Why doesn’t he just buy a Range Rover, which is made from local components, just down the road? No, really — weird-beards buy locally produced meat and vegetables for eco-reasons. So why not apply the same logic to cars?

At this point you will probably dismiss what I’m saying as the rantings of a petrolhead, and think that I have my head in the sand.

That’s not true. While I have yet to be convinced that man’s 3% contribution to the planet’s greenhouse gases affects the climate, I do recognise that oil is a finite resource and that as it becomes more scarce, the political ramifications could well be dire. I therefore absolutely accept the urgent need for alternative fuels.

But let me be clear that hybrid cars are designed solely to milk the guilt genes of the smug and the foolish. And that pure electric cars, such as the G-Wiz and the Tesla, don’t work at all because they are just too inconvenient.

I have switched to CFLs, simply because they last longer. I have not noticed any reduction in electricity costs.

Zeke	05-19-2009 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KaptKaos (Post 4671602)

I'd really like to know what's "green"?

Is buying a used car greener than buying a new one? If so, how much MPG does the old car need to get before it becomes less green (assuming new cars get better MPG).

Does recycling really make a difference? Does all of the energy that goes into recycling really reduce the amount of "waste". (side note: there seem to be bands of people emptying the cans from people's recycling bins in our neighborhood for the deposit money).

Are CFLs, which contain mercury better than plain old incandescent bulbs when you add in the manufacturing and new waste (mercury).

Are hybrids, with their battery packs, better than a non-hybrid that gets similar mileage?

Why aren't we building more nuclear power stations? If CO2 is the real problem, wouldn't that make sense?

If plug-in electric cars are in our future, will they be more efficient than gas or diesel cars given the amount of electricity we'll be sucking down to charge them and the fuels (coal, natural gas, nuclear, etc..) that we'll need to generate to power them? What about the transmission losses in power lines compared to the refining and shipping costs in gas/diesel?

Until someone can answer these questions, I am not sure what it means to be "green".

Exactly. And the worst part is all the advertising that has jumped on the bandwagon. I'm pretty sure there's no real research behind the claims.

They just want you to know they are green, green, GREEN!!

Scooter

05-19-2009 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notfarnow (Post 4671499)

Most of the stuff we do to be CHEAP is also "green"... kind of a bonus
...
- heat with wood

Is this really true?

Not sure what my tree-hugger friends will say about that. ;)

Danimal16

05-19-2009 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jyl (Post 4672390)

You have done the research? Let's see the data.

Some of us have. Read the UN Study on global warming. It has been posted here. RWEBB and I had a very informative discussion regarding this. Don't cop out by asking a question like that. It is tantamount to a 5 year old saying "prove it". Not only that proving ones opinion is not a requirement. IMHO

Danimal16

05-19-2009 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scooter (Post 4672934)

Is this really true?

Not sure what my tree-hugger friends will say about that. ;)

Or the air pollution control folks.

jyl	05-19-2009 05:28 PM

Well, he's listed a whole bunch of questions and basically said "someone else answer all this for me, or I don't know what is 'green' ". My view is, if you actually care what is and isn't "green", go do some work and find out. If you could care less about being "green", then say so. Don't make like you do care, but it's up to other people to go do a bunch of work for you.

As for me, my basic attitude is that on an individual level I'll do things that I have concluded are better for the environment, but they have to pencil out financially. Sure, it would be interesting to have PV panels on the roof, but I've done the numbers and the prices aren't there yet, not for my climate. But stuff like recycling or CFLs involve no or minimal additional financial cost, so I'll do them. BTW I did look up how much mercury is in a CFL and how much airborne mercury is avoided by the reduced lifetime energy consumption of that CFL. It isn't hard to find out.

Quote:

<div class="pre-quote">
Quote de <strong>jyl</strong>
</div>

<div class="post-quote">
<div style="font-style:italic">You have done the research? Let's see the data.</div>
</div>Some of us have. Read the UN Study on global warming. It has been posted here. RWEBB and I had a very informative discussion regarding this. Don't cop out by asking a question like that. It is tantamount to a 5 year old saying "prove it". Not only that proving ones opinion is not a requirement. IMHO

island911

05-19-2009 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jyl (Post 4673155)

....
As for me, my basic attitude is that on an individual level I'll do things that I have concluded are better for the environment, .....

Like a freaking Capt Planet poster child. :rolleyes: And then you say it must "pencil out."

Face it, you are just looking for efficiencies, and then labeling it as 'good for the environment.' (the new religion --full of self-righteous zealots)

Don't hurt your elbow, with all that patting yourself on the greenback. :cool:

strupgolf

05-19-2009 06:03 PM

This government wants us all to think GREEN. Thats right, send all of your Green {backs} to them and they will make everything right.

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