Pelican Parts Forums - Ducati 900 SS

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- - Ducati 900 SS - Humbled at the Dyno (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/476497-ducati-900-ss-humbled-dyno.html)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins (Post 4686971)

The guys I'm getting to know in this offbeat little niche of the old Ducati are unanimous in their assesment of the slipper clutch: They are for folks who don't know how to ride a big twin properly - a crutch.

Now, please don't shoot the messanger. I have no experience with a slipper, and no experience with a high-reving multi. Like I said above, my transition from two to four cycle dirt bikes left the same impression on me - the compression braking really threw me off at first. But, I learned to use it, then to love it.

I bet riding a slipper equiped bike, or a high reving multi, would throw me off. I would subconciously be expecting that compression braking, and when it didn't happen, I bet I could find myself in trouble. At least until I got used to it.

Anyway, the consensus among old Duc riders (or riders of old Ducs) is that they take a good deal of the personality away from the bikes, and reduce the skill needed to ride one well. I can relate to that. I like early 911's, too, for many of the same reasons. If you drive one well, you have accomplished something. Many don't see that, and think trying to shift a recalitrant 901 or 915 is just a pain in the ass. The propensity for snap oversteer frightens them. They don't see the appeal; more modern is more appealing. To each his own - there is room on the road for all of us. I'm just not going to "modernize" a classic to make things easier. If I wanted that, I would just buy newer.

Interesting that you mention this, Jeff. I have a slipper on my bike. It was installed by the previous owner. But I don't think it's much of a big deal, particularly on a street bike. It's not the bees knees, IMO. In fact, I'm a bit embarrassed when it engages (or disengages, as may the more appropriate description), as it means I was a bit ham fisted with my downshifting. It's like not doing a heel-toe smoothly, and having some sort of device cover up my screwup. At least, that's the way I feel on my streetbike. If I were racing for MotoGP gold, then keeping steady rear wheel traction as I'm doing a near-stoppie, backin' it into a corner might be important. Otherwise, I think it's a bit of a crutch. At least at my level of proficiency (or lack, thereof) and the type of riding I do.

If you want to try a Duc with a slipper, come take my bike for a spin next time you're in LA.

In the old days, (pre slipper clutch) this is how you had to do it... slow hands
watch how deep he carries clutch pressure.
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My 900SP had virtually the same HP/torque output when it was tested at Seattle Ducati's dyno day last year.

I like the torque curve and keeping the RPM over 4,000 makes the bike easy to ride.

What carbs are you guys running? I installed 41mm FCRs on mine and it feels like it gained 10 up over stock. I never expected my desmodue to have more than 90 hp but the torque of the vtwin was what I was after and that vtwin thump. I ride a 750 Ninja also and the ninja feels slower in town, but on the back roads I keep the revs up and I'm near F1 heaven when the inline four screams through the Muzzy can. But the ninja has maybe 30-40 more horses. In town the torque of the Duc and its light weight makes for fun riding.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlockhart (Post 4688209)

In the old days, (pre slipper clutch) this is how you had to do it... slow hands
watch how deep he carries clutch pressure.

One thing they don't teach in the MSF classes (the first MSF class I took years ago the instructors talked about it briefly) is clutch management. Clutch and throttle management....very few riders can do that from what I see. Lots of newbies pop the clutch for all engagement...but to start in 1st gear.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins (Post 4684710)

I took advantage of a free dyno day at Ducati of Seattle on Saturday, running my '93 900 SS. The SuperFlow WinDyn showed about 74 hp @ 7,000 rpm, and 60 ft lbs of torque @ 5,800 rpm. With the usual +15% to get crank hp, that works out to about 85. Nothing to write home about...

LOL, that's still about 20 hp more than a harley, even with loud "look at me I'm a bad boy" pipes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sammyg2 (Post 4688794)

LOL, that's still about 20 hp more than a harley, even with loud "look at me I'm a bad boy" pipes.

Yes, it is. And at a measured 370 pounds wet, it's about half the weight of my Road King.

That said, the following day my wife and I logged over 300 leisurely miles touring northwestern Washington on the big Harley. I simply cannot imagine a better machine for the purpose. Different horses for different courses.

By the way, both of my Harleys run quiet, stock exhaust. The 900 SS is by far the loudest bike in the stable, with its larger diameter Termignoni "spaghetti" exhaust with carbon fiber cans, and its open airbox on top of a pair of 43mm flat slides. The intake noise alone, over 6,000 rpm or so, is loud enough to make my face hurt. The exhaust drowns out every straight-piped Harley within earshot. Add to all of that the rattling clutch, the clicking desmo valve gear, and some truly gnarly popping and banging on trailing throttle, and we have a veritable symphony that is sure to quicken the pulse of any true gear head. Beautiful stuff...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Souk (Post 4688567)

Actually, they do teach how to use the clutch. I was involved in setting up the first MSF courses in Oklahoma and lots of time was spent working on partial engagment of the clutch, both in taking off from a stop and in negotiating tight turns.

Still, I'd say only 1 in 100 riders actually can ride well.

JR

The classes I was at taught friction point...but only for accelerating from a stop...no clutch management otherwise.

Our classes taught riders to modulate the clutch at times when precise control of the power was required, as opposed to manipulating the throttle. This was typically practiced in tight turns and low speed maneuvering.

I'm surprised yours didn't have that as I thought the curriculum was pretty standard nationwide.

JR

It is probably standard..but details are dependent on the instructors.

Totally apropos of nothing but since I was a little kid I have thought this Ducati is the most beautiful motorcycle ever.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1243549133.jpg

Quote:

Originally Posted by jyl (Post 4689578)

Totally apropos of nothing but since I was a little kid I have thought this Ducati is the most beautiful motorcycle ever.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1243549133.jpg

Yes. That's the bike that got me interested in motorcycling. A few years ago Ducati brought out the Paul Smart commemorative edition—based on this bike. It's stunningly pretty, and a friend of mine bought one new and keeps it in his living room as art. Just likes to stare at it.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1243554209.jpg

Well, I can see the anti slipper sentiment amongst the crowd that savors the old bikes (hell, I used to ride w/ a guy who would sneer at new gloves) but I gotta say that on the new gen bikes, they make a lot of sense, as the bikes have so much more brake power that its that much easier to upset the rear with a good but not perfect shift. I really like my Surflex, and you can still practice skillful shifts, its just that the penalty is less severe if you don't.

Probably the same guys that don't like light flywheels on 2v twins...

Just for fun, how much does a nice 750SS go for? Not a perfect restored one, but a nice rider?

If the real ones are too much, how much would it be to buy a 750 of the same vintage and convert it to an ersatz 750SS?

I know these are naive questions, I don't know anything about old Ducatis. And I'm not ready for a "real" bike anyway. Just wanted to put a price tag on my fantasy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jyl (Post 4689980)

You might buy one for $20-30k. I've seen one for sale recently for $88k.

Can't help you with question 2.

JR

Ah well, business will have to improve (and I become a better rider) before fantasy becomes reality.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jyl (Post 4689980)

If the real ones are too much, how much would it be to buy a 750 of the same vintage and convert it to an ersatz 750SS?

The old 70's non SS 750 model was the 750GT. All the old bevel drive stuff is very pricey these days. A decent GT is probably getting close to 10k due to the skyhigh value of the 750ss. If you have a hankering for old italian iron, I suggest trying one of these...Laverda 750SF. A better value than the bevel drive ducs and really good rides:

http://lkk.smugmug.com/photos/9272407_B6QFz-L.jpg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dottore (Post 4689747)

I was thinking of doing the same with my 1982 Katana but was worried that the floor wouldn't support a 500lb bike. I hate to come home and find it in the basement one day! :eek: