Patton 360 you catching this?

[austin552]

http://www.history.com/content/patton-360/general-george-smith-patton-jr

What is your take on this guy? My wife is related by the way which makes perfect sense.

[Racerbvd]

Cool show, I like it.....

[HardDrive]

Fascinated by Patton. There are some great books about his life. Not at home at the moment, but I'll look up the last one I read when I got home.

[sammyg2]

I saw one of those shows a while back.
I cracked up when they said they instructed the US soldiers not to fire on the vichy french until they started it. seems the US generals expected the french to surrender before a single shot was fired. boy were they wrong, it took hours of fighting until they finally surrendered. Again. For the second time in the same war

I have no respect for patton. IMO he was a very small man and a poor leader. Why?
It was all about him. He was in it for personal glory.

A true leader and a great man does not bow to that level. He does what is right because it is right, not because of personal reward. A great leader cares about his followers, and does not use them in pursuit of glory.

Eisenhower was a much better leader and better man than patton.

[m21sniper]

Patton is the greatest manuever general in US history, it's not even remotely close.

[tcar]

Great, great General; maybe, maybe not, such a great person.

Who knows what would have happend had Patton not been hamstrung by Ike trying to placate Montgomery, which turned out to be a double mistake (Market Garden disaster). Might not even have been a Battle of the Bulge or holed up freezing in the Ardennes forest in the worst winter in decades.

Erwin Rommel, the incredible German battlefield tactician (The Desert Fox), had huge respect for Patton.

("Go, George, go" when he took Le Mans).

[jluetjen]

It's funny, but the George C. Scott Movie "Patton" was most likely one of the worst things to ever happen to Patton's reputation. It's most likely no small surprise that this may be due to the fact that his former subordinate/boss Omar Bradley was the lead technical consultant for the movie. Scott felt that the movie did such a poor job of representing Patton that he made another follow-up movie that covers the last days of Patton's life and presents him in an altogether different light.

In researching the events related to my Dad's time in the military, I've read a few of Patton's biographys. The best that I've come across so far is Carlo D'Este's "A Genius for War". D'Este goes into pretty deep detail of the man starting with his family and quotes his diaries and other writings extensively. The picture that emerges isn't the cartoon caricature from the big screen movie, but rather of a man who had a life-long belief in what his life's purpose was. That purpose was to lead a great Army into a decisive battle. From shy, slight and somewhat effeminate young teen Patton lived his life in such a way as to mold himself into what he believed he should be. As a result he would take foolish risks at the firing range and when horse back riding to test his courage. In order to make up for his squeaky voice he made himself into the toughest cadet in his West Point class. He conditioned himself to memorize things because he apparently suffered from dyslexia. Once he became a general he made a conscious point of promoting himself as the toughest SOB around. There's a story of him pulling over after getting strafed and seeing a linemen from the signal corp. up a pole stringing wires. He was very impressed that he kept working right through the attack and asked the solder if he wasn't afraid of the German plane. The solder replied that he wasn't half of afraid of the Germany plane as he was of Patton. That's the response that he wanted from his soldiers.

He wasn't half the self-absorbed as***le that the movie portrays. He had an unswerving belief that the best way to save the lives of his soldiers to prepare them relentlessly and move! Move! MOVE! forward into the enemy's rear as quickly as possible. Rather then duke it out head to head like Bradley often did (echo's of WW1), Patton believed that the best path was to get as deep as possible behind the enemy lines. History has generally proven Patton to be right since both Generals "Stormin" Norman Schwartzkopf and Tommy Franks used the same blueprint to steamroll the Iraqi Army.

While the slapping incident was certainly an issue, according to my Dad and just about everyone else who served under Patton, there was hardly a soldier in the 3rd Army who would not have been honored to march at his funeral.

[Seahawk]

Great post!

D'Este's book is excellent.

In his book, "A Soilder's Story" Bradley comes off very poorly when he discusses Patton. There are mant reason for this, most discussed in "Patton 360" especially wrt the Battle of the Buldge and the relief of the troop at Bastogne.

Originally Posted by jluetjen

It's funny, but the George C. Scott Movie "Patton" was most likely one of the worst things to ever happen to Patton's reputation. It's most likely no small surprise that this may be due to the fact that his former subordinate/boss Omar Bradley was the lead technical consultant for the movie. Scott felt that the movie did such a poor job of representing Patton that he made another follow-up movie that covers the last days of Patton's life and presents him in an altogether different light.

In researching the events related to my Dad's time in the military, I've read a few of Patton's biographys. The best that I've come across so far is Carlo D'Este's "A Genius for War". D'Este goes into pretty deep detail of the man starting with his family and quotes his diaries and other writings extensively. The picture that emerges isn't the cartoon caricature from the big screen movie, but rather of a man who had a life-long belief in what his life's purpose was. That purpose was to lead a great Army into a decisive battle. From shy, slight and somewhat effeminate young teen Patton lived his life in such a way as to mold himself into what he believed he should be. As a result he would take foolish risks at the firing range and when horse back riding to test his courage. In order to make up for his squeaky voice he made himself into the toughest cadet in his West Point class. He conditioned himself to memorize things because he apparently suffered from dyslexia. Once he became a general he made a conscious point of promoting himself as the toughest SOB around. There's a story of him pulling over after getting strafed and seeing a linemen from the signal corp. up a pole stringing wires. He was very impressed that he kept working right through the attack and asked the solder if he wasn't afraid of the German plane. The solder replied that he wasn't half of afraid of the Germany plane as he was of Patton. That's the response that he wanted from his soldiers.

He wasn't half the self-absorbed as***le that the movie portrays. He had an unswerving belief that the best way to save the lives of his soldiers to prepare them relentlessly and move! Move! MOVE! forward into the enemy's rear as quickly as possible. Rather then duke it out head to head like Bradley often did (echo's of WW1), Patton believed that the best path was to get as deep as possible behind the enemy lines. History has generally proven Patton to be right since both Generals "Stormin" Norman Schwartzkopf and Tommy Franks used the same blueprint to steamroll the Iraqi Army.

While the slapping incident was certainly an issue, according to my Dad and just about everyone else who served under Patton, there was hardly a soldier in the 3rd Army who would not have been honored to march at his funeral.

[Crowbob]

I must say, gentleman, PPOT (which is you) has been one of the most valuable, enlightening and informative things I've come across in years. Thank you Gentleman. Carry on.

Oops. You too, Wayne. Thanks!

[sammyg2]

IIRC, it was Patton's father-in-law who said:
"Georgey, I'll earn the money for the family. You earn the glory".

[austin552]

http://www.generalpatton.com/quotes.html

"A good plan, violently executed now, is better than a perfect plan next week."

“A good solution applied with vigor now is better than a perfect solution applied ten minutes later.”

"America loves a winner, and will not tolerate a loser, this is why America has never, and will never, lose a war.”

“A pint of sweat will save a gallon of blood.”

“By perseverance, study, and eternal desire, any man can become great.”

“Do everything you ask of those you command.”

“Do more than is required of you.”

“Fixed fortifications are monuments to man's stupidity.”

“Good tactics can save even the worst strategy. Bad tactics will destroy even the best strategy.”

“I always believe in being prepared, even when I'm dressed in white tie and tails.”

“I am a soldier, I fight where I am told, and I win where I fight.”

“If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking.”

“If I do my full duty, the rest will take care of itself.”

“In case of doubt, attack.”

“It’s the unconquerable soul of man, not the nature of the weapon he uses, that insures victory.”

“Lead me, follow me, or get out of my way. ”

“Live for something rather than die for nothing.”

"May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't.”

“Moral courage is the most valuable and usually the most absent characteristic in men.”

“Never let the enemy pick the battle site.”

“No good decision was ever made in a swivel chair.”

“Say what you mean and mean what you say.”

“Success is how you bounce on the bottom.”

“The leader must be an actor."

“The soldier is the army.”

“There is only one type of discipline, perfect discipline.”

“War is simple, direct, and ruthless.”

“Wars may be fought with weapons, but they are won by men.”

“You’re never beaten until you admit it.”

“You shouldn't underestimate an enemy, but it is just as fatal to overestimate him.”

"Attack rapidly, ruthlessly, viciously, without rest, however tired and hungry you may be, the enemy will be more tire, more hungry. Keep punching."

"In landing operations, retreat is impossible, to surrender is as ignoble as it is foolish. above all else remember that we as attackers have the initiative, we know exactly what we are going to do, while the enemy is ignorant of our intentions and can only parry our blows. We must retain this tremendous advantage by always attacking rapidly, ruthlessly, viciously, and without rest."

"An Army is a team; lives, sleeps, eats, fights as a team. This individual heroic stuff is a lot of crap."

"War is the supreme test of man in which he rises to heights never approached in any other activity."

"No sane man is unafraid in battle, but discipline produces in him a form of vicarious courage."

"A man must know his destiny. if he does not recognize it, then he is lost. By this I mean, once, twice, or at the very most, three times, fate will reach out and tap a man on the shoulder. if he has the imagination, he will turn around and fate will point out to him what fork in the road he should take, if he has the guts, he will take it."

"In war the only sure defense is offense, and the efficiency of the offense depends on the warlike souls of those conducting it."

"Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity."

"Wars might be fought with weapons, but they are won by men. It is the spirit of the men who leads that gains the victory."

". many, who should know better, think that wars can be decided by soulless machines, rather than by the blood and anguish of brave men."

"Tanks are new and special weapon-newer than, as special, and certainly as valuable as the airplane."

"An incessant change of means to attain unalterable ends is always going on; we must take care not to let these sundry means undue eminence in the perspective of our minds; for, since the beginning, there has been an unending cycle of them, and for each its advocates have claimed adoption as the sole solution of successful war."

"Untutored courage is useless in the face of educated bullets."

"The obvious thing for the cavalryman to do is to accept the fighting machine as a partner, and prepare to meet more fully the demands of future warfare."

"Many soldiers are led to faulty ideas of war by knowing too much about too little."

[m21sniper]

So many of those quotes are very similar to US Grant or Sherman quotes from the civil war. I suppose that should come as no surprise.

"In war nothing is impossible with the application of sufficient audacity."
~Patton

[1967 R50/2]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

Patton is the greatest manuever general in US history, it's not even remotely close.

Well, I guess Lee was technically not fighting for the US, so that would be about right.

[m21sniper]

The difference between patton and lee is that patton won.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

The difference between patton and lee is that patton won.

And logistics...

[m21sniper]

Actually Patton was severely hamstrung in logistics or he would have been in Berlin months before the Soviets, most likely.

"I want you boys to hurry up and whip these Germans so we can get out to the Pacific to kick the shiit out of the purple-pissing Japanese, before the Goddamned Marines get all the credit!"
~Patton

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

Actually Patton was severely hamstrung in logistics or he would have been in Berlin months before the Soviets, most likely.

"I want you boys to hurry up and whip these Germans so we can get out to the Pacific to kick the shiit out of the purple-pissing Japanese, before the Goddamned Marines get all the credit!"
~Patton

Couldn't agree more...my point was less Patton got a small piece of a very large supply pie, rather, Lee increasingly had no supplies...there is a great debate on what supplies Early and Heth were searching for in Gettysburg. Some historians shoes, others say anything.

[Heel n Toe]

"Now I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."



"Now there's another thing I want you to remember. I don't want to get any messages saying that 'we are holding our position.' We're not holding anything. Let the Hun do that. We are advancing constantly and we're not interested in holding onto anything except the enemy. We're going to hold onto him by the nose and we're going to kick him in the ass. We're going to kick the hell out of him all the time and we're going to go through him like crap through a goose!"

[varmint]

the graphics worked really well for dogfights, and the various modern naval battle shows.

but i don't think they have the budget for full scale land battles. the terrain looks cheap. maya does tanks well. but starts to chug when asked to simulate terrain.

[cashflyer]

You will enjoy this link about Patton's speech that was portrayed in the movie.

http://www.pattonhq.com/speech.html