Well, I do think that getting rid of Bernie and Max would have a substantially more positive effect on the sport than budget caps.

I'd like to point out that this is something that NASCAR does exceedingly well. They quietly discuss potential new regulations with the teams years in advance, get input, and have buy-in and potential issues resolved long before the plans are made public. There are no surprises for the teams (though there are for the fans--to keep it exciting). For as much as NASCAR isn't a great series for overt technical innovation (I still contend that a LOT of money gets spent to eek out small advantages between the rules in NASCAR), and the races can be rather boring, it is a very well run racing series. That is perhaps why it does so well--no other racing series is as well run.

Hmm... the 80s cars were not that primitive when compared to those of the late 70s... loads of engine/ aero and structures progress...let alone compared to the 60s cars... each generation brings its own leaps...

For the last few years the rate of change has been artificially limited by draconian rules being enforced...pushing aero development into completely dead end directions whilst real innovation in mechanical grip has languished behind.

Imagine if the FIA let the teams run 20series tyres on 18 inch rims... the entire F1 concept would need to be revised to exploit that new parameter...and racing would be very different...there teams could get it very right or very wrong. What would not change in cost terms is the need for massive CFD/ wind tunnel testing to 'get it right' .. but that can be governed by some easy rules that massively cut back on cost, back in the factory....and allow 'live testing to return' making virtual testing the parriah....much more fun all round.

What the fans in the stands care about is rather elementary, the party like atmosphere, the noise and the drivers. In the case of a home based team like Ferrari, there will be a lot of hoopla about that team, but since most teams don't have a nationality image and are based in England, this factor is lacking. The A1 Gran Prix series featuring a driver from each entering country probably tries to capture the identity thing. A lot to be desired there as a promotable series.

And while on the subject of the "other" series, that is what will happen if F1 breaks up.

But the fans in the stands apparently don't mean a thing to Mosley and Bernie. TV is what it'$ all about. I doubt that any new break away series will be able to line up a season for next year on TV or get the venues. Meanwhile the parade will go on.

As long as it's noisy and some recognizable countrymen are in the cockpit, I say F1 will succeed in any form it takes. Put Valentino Rossi in one and Sebastian Lobe in another and you'll have a winner series if they drove karts.

This is what killed formula racing in the US. It wasn't rules or whether is was oval or road, it was a lack of recognizable drivers. Still is, to an extent, but they've come back somewhat with Danica and Dario, maybe (ugh) Marco. Most of the rest don't register on any scale. I said "most," I'm not shorting Tony K. and a couple others.

Just my .02, of course.....

I have been following F1 since the 50s....less so now.

Ferrari as a team has been in F1 since the start of the WC.....long before excessive cornering speeds became an issue pushing the fans waaaaay back from the action and making all the courses look the same. I would hope the manufactures would look back at those days and realize where the problems (and massive expenses) have come from. In a word, it is aero. If one is "stuck" with mechanical grip, speeds will drop off by a good 50% in corners and also, but less, on the straights. The cars would be much better looking to boot.

Carbon brakes (and aero) are THE killer for passing attempts. I would stick with the slick transmissions as the longevity is a real plus.

FOTA now is in the position to revitalize F1...or what ever they choose to call it.
In life, one doesn't often get the opportunity to remake themselves AND put the gennie back in the bottle. I hope they don't blow it.

Yes, I'm an old guy. All you techies feel free to flame away.....I'm used to it.

I'd pay to see that.
The best part of F1 for me is the extremeness of it. The fastest, best handling. lightest, trickest cars.

That is going away more and more every year.

If they turn it into a spec class like irl I won't be interested.

You guys are not the typical race fan. You are far more educated about the technical side. JP is right, dumb it down, but keep it safe. It's a show, a circus, we need to see the pomp and circumstance, the lion tamers and the pretty girls. Add in the screaming noise, and it's a package.

i'de like to see a no budget cap F1, with very limited technical rules, but with rules concerning emissions and economy.

EG, you can spend as much money as you want,
as long as it has 4 wheels and a driver
and meets a certain fuel and emissions standard, you are good to go

you want a turbine engine, fine
rotary? fine
Hydrogen for fuel?
electric motors? knock yerself out
Engine that runs on dog turds? brilliant

Now that would make things interesting in terms of getting some usable technology developed... They have always made the statement, that if given the task, F1 engineers would devellop an engine that runs on pure water.. well, let them.

You wanna show up in a fuel guzzling 8 Liter V12 with twin turbo charger.. ok, but your emissions will suck, and you get penalized at the starting grid... per xx grams of emissions you get x number of penalty laps added.

Ban wings and traction control and that's it.

i find more entertainment watching Koni challenge racing than F1.

Couldnt happen to a nicer two-some of a$$wipes. Friend of mine used to fly for Bernie and he is as bad or worse than he comes across on the news and paper reports.

Wasnt Mosley supposed to leave F1 last fall? Doesnt he need more whipping, like 20 hours a day followed by 3 hours in "wanking lessions" and an hour to sleep until he dies?

Its time that the FIA and the two stooges part company and those two retire somewhere.

Change the transmissions back to a manual stick shift. No traction control, no carbon brakes. Only minor aero wings to keep the cars from flying into the air. Put in a rev limit of 15,000.

I wouldn't mind some very small wings.....single element in balancing the cars for no lift, but no tunnels, diffusers and all the rest of that BS. The billboards would be smaller but not non-existent.

I've been hoping somebody would off both of them. So far, no joy.

You'll be plesased to know that Max has announced today that he'll probably not retire in October, as originally promised. He "can't quit" with F1 in a mess. Wouldn't be right to the next guy, you know... never mind that it's his mess to begin with.

Bernie, in spite of being a billionaire, is still the same nasty POS that he was when he was peddling used cars 50 years ago, or thereabouts. You'd think that somewhere along the way he'd have learned some manners and aquired a conscience. Here's hoping his age will catch up with him, sooner rather than later.

JR

Would vote for most of that. Return manual shifting, no traction control and normal brakes. Limiting rpm's? No way for me and I really miss the 19,000 rpm engines of several years ago.

As well bring back the Ferarri V-12's!

I think the current crisis is required....Bernie and Max have screwed the organizations over for years, there is a regulating body required for sure, but as was said about Nascar, a more benevolent and cooperative approach is required and both those nasty people are not into that at all.

On the face of the matter, the new series has 8 proven competitors including all the ones that matter, fielding 2 cars each. They have the money and I am sure that if they redirect the money they were paying Bernie and Max towards hosting their own series, they would probably come off cheaper than today.
In terms of tracks, there are a few annoyed track owners (i.e. Montreal, Indianapolis, Silverstone) plus a few in Europe that would be more than delighted to offer their services and tracks to host a good series.

Even if they ran 2 events at each of 5 tracks, it would still be a pretty good deal and the crap would be gone.

Fota is complete right and justified, they cannot have their investment arbitrarily controlled by a dictatorial third party, they need stability in regulations and a fair playing field.

I hope that now that the line has been crossed, Fota never looks back and just tells Bernie and Max to *uck themselves....

Contractually, yes there will be a legal case around Ferrari, but the rest I would suspect are contractually able to do whatever they want, and Ferrari has the most to lose if they give up now.


Dennis

From a series perspective, F1 was screwed when the FIA gave Bernie a 100 year "lease" of the marketing rights for the series for something like $100K. That was completely silly. In order to get the cash needed to invest in his new property, he turned around and leveraged those rights to the hilt via some investment bankers, which then obligated him to some serious payments against those bonds. In order to make those payments he needs to make sure that he is getting absolute top dollar for every event, so he charges huge fees to the track owners for the events, and for the TV rights. It's gotten to the point that the only way that track owners can raise the money to pay Bernie's fees is to get government support and take the event on as a loss leader. The result is that we now have Grand Prix races in places like Dubai, Singapore and China, and none in North America.

As far as the cars are concerned, I think that they moved in the right direction this year with all of the do-dads and appendages gone. Personally for me the ideal formula is something that resembles an F1 care of circa 1968 -- not much more then a cigar and 4 wheels. Alas, we can't put the genie back in the bottle when it comes to aerodynamics, engine technology, CAD, Computerized flow analysis, etc. etc. etc. But in any case, I think that they should continue to reduce the plan area of the cars (which is what generates the underbody downforce) and reduce the free areas for barge boards.

Eventually the cars will start to look like this -- and drift like this!
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/wp-conten...ed-470x324.jpg

KERS is interesting and I think provides some much needed technical interest, not to mention it's now pitting heavier cars with an extra 80 HP (Louis Hamilton) against lighter cars without the boost button (Brawn GP). Having cars battling with competing strategies is what makes the series interesting to me. Next year should be better when KERS gets more capacity. Eventually I expect that 3 strategies will emerge...
1) Light car with no KERS
2) Heavy car with KERS optimized for HP as it is now
3) Heavier car with KERS optimized for saving enough fuel to get one or two more laps out of the car -- thus shifting the pit strategy.

I would expect that teams will then be able to shift one option 2 to 3 or vice versa depending on tire wear and competitors' strategy.

I have a slightly different take. I am not a huge race fan, but I do like cool cars, and F1 has that and is the only series I follow. I like the excessiveness of it all, especially the huge $ and the technical wizardry. It is kind of like America's cup yachting, but with engines.

I like the crazy intersection of national competition and multi-national corporations. It is like some sci-fi novel or something, where no one is sure which of the elements is most important. Do you root for Kimi because he is a Finn or because he drives for Ferrari or for some other reason?

I also believe that it is a team sport - not an individual sport. Limiting the technology to make it harder for the driver takes away from the team aspect by putting extra (and artificial) demands on the driver. If I can buy technology for my sedan, it seems to me that it should be allowed on a F1 car. On the other hand, the drivers skill and courage is very important - I would not want to watch a computer drive around a track. I guess balance is the key.

I think a split is needed. My sympathies are with the manufacturers- they are the ones who make the cars I might drive. The FIA, and the F1 brand mean nothing to me. What might be cool is to require any manufacturer to make available key components of the car (at a reasonable price) to any private team who wants to buy them. That is the definition of a manufacturer, after all.


Just my $.02,

David

Fewer rules = battle of engineers and drivers (and money, to some extent)
More rules = battle of drivers and dumb luck (who gets stuck when the SC comes out, gets the good restart, etc.)

For one, I want to see fewer rules and radically different approaches to problem by different teams. That'd be great - some larger cars, some smaller cars, different aero approaches, different fuels, etc. That'd spark some real innovation. Vary the courses/circuits so that a "one-size-fits-all" doesn't win. In other words, have some straight, flat, fast courses that favor top-end and low downforce aero. Have some others tight and twisty that favor high downforce and highly-tuned suspensions. Have some endurance events that will favor economical fuel solutions. Have some short ones that favor high-power engines...

The allure of F1 for me has always been in the innovations that come out of it and when it gets down to the point where individual engines, computers and tires are being micromanaged by the race officials, it's just a game of creative engineering and who can bend the rules the most. It's stupid and has little to do anymore with either driving ability or true R&D engineering prowess. It's like NASCAR with the d-damn restrictor plates. C'mon. Give me a break...

I'd KILL for a "minimum rules" series with a variety of courses like I described above - some track, some street, endurance, twisty, hell throw in a rally course or two... Specify maximum vehicle dimensions, weight and safety equipment and you gotta' race the same car for the whole season. It'd be awesome and would result in some very cool new innovations - and be damn fun to watch too.

You know Jeff, ALMS embodies much of what you seek...

It certainly does... It's got its own problems nowadays though... :(