Porsche Drivers Outdistance Ferrari 2:1

piscator · 06-23-2009, 08:50 PM

Trivia Time:

P-car owners sure love driving! Running down the list of 'exotics' for sale at classyauto.com I happened to notice that odometer mileage on P-Cars is typically TWICE that of similar vintage Ferraris.

Must be lots of reasons why Porsche owners don't mind racking up the miles, but it seems kinda odd that Ferrari drivers travel HALF as far as Porsche enthusiasts!

Just thought this might be of interest to trivia fans!

piscator

Winter · 06-23-2009, 09:04 PM

German reliability vs Italian style?

Hmmmm? Reliability keeps you behind the wheel while style keeps you polishing your "jewel" in the garage?

Interesting fact. Others may feel free to chime in.

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Tom '75 targa

Bullet Bob · 06-23-2009, 09:27 PM

I LOVE the looks and style of Ferraris but I could never stomach paying that much for a car I could only drive 1k miles per year. Even the most exotic Porsches can be driven daily and I put 15k+ miles on my '88 911 every year.

Recently I saw a Testarossa for sale with 40k miles and it just had a full tranny rebuild at a cost of $27k. I asked why the hell it needed a rebuild at 40k miles and I guess my ignorance was obvious. That is extremely high mileage for a Ferrari.

javadog · 06-24-2009, 04:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bullet Bob

I LOVE the looks and style of Ferraris but I could never stomach paying that much for a car I could only drive 1k miles per year...
Recently I saw a Testarossa for sale with 40k miles and it just had a full tranny rebuild at a cost of $27k. I asked why the hell it needed a rebuild at 40k miles and I guess my ignorance was obvious. That is extremely high mileage for a Ferrari.

Nonsense. A Ferrari can be driven every day, just like any car. The mechanicals are pretty stout. The Testarossa that needed a gearbox rebuild likely didn't need it because they typically wear out at 40k miles. There's another explanation. I bought a 930 a few years ago that needed a gearbox rebuild at 37K. The reason? Too many previous owners that didn't know how to shift it properly. It's not always the car's fault.

JR

KNS · 06-24-2009, 04:55 AM

There a few Ferrari owners that drive the snot out of their cars but i think the majority are afraid of racking up the mileage, door dings, etc. No one blinks at buying a 100,000+ mile Porsche. Most potential Ferrari owners would walk away from a 100,000+ car (if you can find one). While it is common to find 200 and 300 thousand mile and even higher P cars, it is pretty rare in a Ferrari.

masraum · 06-24-2009, 05:22 AM

It's not really surprising or odd. It's quite simple.

Ferrari maintenance is outrageous. Porsche maintenance isn't much worse than any other car.

Porsches make great daily drivers. Ferraris don't.

javadog · 06-24-2009, 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by masraum

Ferrari maintenance is outrageous. Porsche maintenance isn't much worse than any other car. Porsches make great daily drivers. Ferraris don't.

Okay, why doesn't a Ferrari work as a daily driver? How much more maintenance does a Ferrari need? Be specific.

JR

masraum · 06-24-2009, 06:38 AM

I've heard stories here about ridiculous maintenance costs at regular intervals.

masraum · 06-24-2009, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by javadog

Okay, why doesn't a Ferrari work as a daily driver? How much more maintenance does a Ferrari need? Be specific.

JR

Any past or present Ferrari owner(s) on Pelican???

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carrman

I have an '87 Mondial 3.2 Cab, which is basically a 4 seater version of the 328 (same drivetrain and most mechanicals).

The Mondial 3.2 and 328 are two of the most reliable Ferraris ever made. They use the same CIS injection system that was used on the 911SC (and about a billion other cars, like VW Rabbits, BMWs, etc. etc.)

The 3.2 Ferrari engine in the Mondi/328 can be fully serviced while in the car, don't need to remove.

It doesn't have any of the MAJOR weaknesses shared by the later "3 series" Ferraris, like the exploding gearbox in the 348/Mondial T, or the weak valve stems like in the 355.

The 3.2/328 don't have a ton of electrical "stuff," like all the Ferraris that followed have. They are the last of the "simple" Ferraris, IMO.

Service manual, etc, are readily available.

The 328 is nothing like the carb'd 308 that Wayne had. Those cars are very hard to get to run correctly, esp. in California, and are not fun when they aren't running correctly, as Wayne found out. The 328 is a completely different beast, a much, much better car, IMO.

In many ways, Ferrari and Porsche followed each other through the 80s and into the 90s. The 328/Mondial 3.2 is a lot like the 84-89 Carrera - the last of the "simple" breed. The 348/Mondial T that followed the 328/Mondi 3.2 is a lot like the 964 - both went to power steering for the first time, went to a new generation of engine/trans that proved to have "issues" that didn't exist in the earlier versions, a lot more electronics.

Door waviness is not normal, but it is not uncommon. It's either from people leaning against the car, or from prior paintless dent removal. The doors should be pretty darn straight.

Can't tell much about the particular one you are looking at, since you give almost no details. Everything you mention is minor cosmetics, all of which can maybe be fixed fairly inexpensively.

The biggest difference between Ferrari and Porsche are:

1. The cam belt system used in Ferrari. Too bad they didn't use chains instead. Much more durable, and you don't need the crazy belt change drama every 5 years.

2. PARTS! For a 911, you can get almost any part new, and fairly reasonable. For a Ferrari, even a "garden variety" one like a 328, there are a lot of parts that are very hard or impossible to get. Or very, very expensive. Eg., a front wheel bearing is $1100. A front fog light is impossible to get, there was one for $4K on ebay once. There aren't many being parted out, so used parts are very hard to come across.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carrman

oh yeah, one other thing, a big issue on price is when the last "major" service was done. This would include a valve adjust, replacement of a bunch of seals, replacing the cam belts and other belts, and some other things. If it hasn't been done in the past 5 years, the car is worth around $6-7K less, b/c that's what it will cost to get it done, and most people will tell you that after 5 years, it is due. If it was done 2.5 years ago, deduct half that, etc.

A lot of the ferraris on the market now are overdue for a major. with the economy, a lot of owners are looking to unload, rather than dump $7K into their car for a service.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dennis in se pa

When I was loking for a 308/328 a few years ago, and posted in ferrarichat I got emails from board members. They warned me about the maintenance issues and costs of such. They recommended I look at an NSX instead. Which I did. Had a 95 NSX T for awhile. It was as reliable as a Honda. Do you want to deal with the costs of owning a Ferrari? They are attractive to look at, but ugly to own.

Quote:

Originally Posted by m21sniper

Yep.

Friend of mine got a "steal" on a 328 a few years ago. He HATED that car by the time he sold it last year. I think he ended up putting 3x what he paid for it into normal operating expenses and maintenance.

He really hated it when my 928S crushed him on a local windy road really late at night. LOL.

Any F car owners on here ?

Good Used Ferrari?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whtnkls911

I have a friend with a 355 his comment was that it required a top end rebuild at 60,000 miles and the cost was around $30,000 for a quality job. He bought his used and said there are quite a few 355's he found with around 50,000 miles that were a bargin until you added in the cost of the rebuild.

There's more...

javadog · 06-24-2009, 07:03 AM

See, that was my point. The dreaded hearsay. There's nothing in a regular service for a Ferrari that is all that unusual. Some have cam belts that need to be changed periodically, as opposed to those that have chains, but that isn't unique to Ferrari. My 928 has the same thing, as do half of my BMWs, all my Audis, etc. Most older Ferraris require valve adjustments. So do all of my 911s, my 930s, 914s, BMWs, etc. You get the point.

Some parts are expensive, but then, so are many Porsche parts. BMW parts used to be cheaper but not any more...ditto Audi. The labor rate on a Ferrari can be a little higher but that isn't necessarily the case.

SO, having owned many examples of both, and a buttload of other cars, let me say that these generalizations are just that. Not worth much.

Carry on,
JR

javadog · 06-24-2009, 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by masraum

...snip... bunch of links....snip...There's more...

You know, one thing I don't see much of here is comments by owners. I see people that were looking to buy a Ferrari, people that had a friend with a Ferrari...

You get my point. If you want to debate specifics, I'm here.

JR

Bullet Bob · 06-24-2009, 07:30 AM

One thing I like about the Porsche is that parts are readily available so I can do my own maintenance. Is this the case for Ferrari? Are there parts vendors out there similar to Pelican parts that cater to Ferraris? If so could you please post a link. I would like to browse and get a sense of replacement part costs. If I am wrong and the costs are not astronomical I really would be interested in owning one someday.

javadog · 06-24-2009, 07:40 AM

There is nobody like Pelican....

For Ferrari parts, try T. Rutlands at http://www.trutlands.com/

There are a few others but these guys are probably the biggest.

JR

PS. One thing I have noticed lately is that a lot of the parts that I used to take for granted that I could get from Porsche are either no longer available, or are made in a different country (take a wild guess which ones) and are crap, compared to the originals. Caveat emptor.