Highway Robbery...Long...Advice welcome

[Dottore]

I just returned from a wonderful 6 day tour of the PNW in the old Porsche, but the sheer audacity of one incident with the Washington state police marred the end of the trip for me.

Sunday evening, Memorial Day weekend, 7:00pm. Big bright blue sky with not a cloud in it. I had been driving hard all day, and was now heading east from Ellensburg WA to Spokane WA on the highway, just cruising, hoping to make to Wenatchee WA for the night. My speedometer is in km, but I was pegged at 115 km (about 3,300 rpm in 4th gear). I'm riding next to a lone Harley, doing the same speed. It's a 70mph zone, and I reckon I'm well with the limit.

A lone Sherrifs car comes in the opposite direction, makes U-turn on the median, follows me and pulls me over.

The cop comes over—heavy with attitude—and says "you realize you were speeding".
I said "I think not. I was well within the limit."

He says, "No you weren't."

I said "yes I was" and explained that I was in 4th gear at 115km which was less than 70 mph.

He says "hell you got a foreign spedometer and you're telling me how fast you were going?

I say, "I'd like to see proof. A read-out, or print out from your radar."

He says. "I didn't clock you. An airplane did."

Now we are outside of the car the whole time, the sky is blue, there's no traffic, the evening is silent, and there's not a single plane anywhere in the sky. So I ask the obvious question, "What airplane?"

"The one in the sky" he replies, getting increasingly angry with me.

"Show it to me. Where is it?" I ask, now getting my own attitude up.

He says,"It can see you. but you can't see it."

I reply, "With respect, that's bull****. I'm not a child, and there is no airplane."

He says, "I'm not gonna argue with you. I'm gonna write you up.", and goes back to his truck and writes me a ticket for $175.- for being clocked (by the airplane) at 86, 86 and 83 in three different imaginary readings.

Now if there's one thing I hate, it's abuse of authority, and I was feeling 200% righteous here. These numbers were pulled out his hat and there was no aircraft, and I was not speeding. (I mean I have been known to speed on occasion, but this was absolutely not one of those times.)

When he came back out with the ticket, I looked at him evenly and said slowly, "I promise you here and now that I will not pay this, and that I will see you in court. I consider what just happened here an outrage. And if I come down here for a court appearance, and you don't show up for it, I promise you I will write this story up with your name and badge number and send it to every newspaper and public authority in Ellensburg that I can come up with."

There was steam coming out of his ears at this point, and he was just about to blow, but then just turned on his heel, got into his truck and pulled a U-turn spraying me with gravel from the shoulder.

Now I'm absolutely right on this, and I actually liked the town of Ellensburg so much that I am happy to drive down there again for a court hearing.

But I would welcome the comments of Washington residents on this with any sound advice. I know that Jeff Higgins had a thread on this a while ago but his facts were quite different. This guy just made everything up in an effort to extort $175.- from a lone Porsche with foreign plates driving entirely within the speed limit.

[the]

Seems pretty bizarre that he would rely on something (readings from an airplane) that are so easily disproved.

Do you have any discovery rights? I would be most interested in receiving the documentation from the supposed air cop - his identity, the identity of his plane, readings from how he clocked you, flight log, etc.

I would think he would need most of that stuff at trial to prove the case against you, since he wasn't the officer who actually clocked you. It would be good to get that stuff in advance, if you could.

[rnln]

please keep us up how it goes. Good luck.

[cgarr]

I would get the pilot and who ever was in the plane taking readings in front of the judge and ask for proof. And get the records from ATC for that time, they will have them.

[asphaltgambler]

You always have discovery rights but the tickets are coded (obviously) and need some translation, IE via attorney

[gassy]

As of Nov '08, Washington St. only had 2 planes used for traffic violations. At a cost of $244/hr each. Do a Google map search of your surrounding location and see if there are even markers on the road for timing cars from the air.

[steve185]

I have often seen complaints about how some people have had unpleasant experiences on the road side after being pulled over.

Here is a little advice, take it or leave it. When pulled over there is not really any benefit of arguing your case on the road side, ask to see the speed on the radar, then take the ticket and drive away. Argue your case or make your complaint at a later time.

[island911]

but your dollars will go to a good liberal cause...


Okay, seriously; with a bird in the air, they usually don't have a need to pass (on-coming) and then throw u-turns. Now if you had been doing 115mph they might make an exception and go out of their way.

Usually, the set-up is the plane timing the (line of) cars to the waiting patrol ....er, cash register cars parked ahead.

[Gogar]

That's a shame. I do hope you follow up, even at some expense.

First, can you clarify a few things?

In your story, your first sentence speaks of the Washington State Patrol. Then, in your story, you state that a "Sherriffs car" pulled you over. Then, at the end of the story, you state he was in a truck (not really important.)

I only ask, because it's important WHO you got the ticket from. If it is the County Sherriff of (xxxxx County), or if it is the Ellensburg Police Department, chances are close to ZERO that either one of those departments has an airplane tracking speeders. If indeed it was the Washington State Patrol, then yes, maybe there is a chance, but if he told you some cock-and-bull story about an airplane, then maybe you can establish whether or not said airplane even exists.

If, indeed it was the WSP, then +1000 to what gassy has already said.

Does the ticket say "airplane"?

[Heel n Toe]

Originally Posted by Dottore

The cop comes over—heavy with attitude—and says "you realize you were speeding".
I said "I think not. I was well within the limit."

I wish you well on this, but IMO, you brought a little attitude of your own to the table. "I think not" was not a diplomatic way to take up the discussion.

I won't speculate on whether you could have turned the tide with more carefully chosen words... who knows... but you challenged him a bit too soon in the exchange.

[924slover]

I would also say he caused damage to your car with the unnecessary burn out. it's cops like this that kept me from becoming a cop because i don't want to be on the same field with these power hungry dirt bags. There are plenty of good cops but cops like this deserve to be taken out back and beaten. there here to PROTECT AND SERVE the American community. but they don't, they serve themselves and the money hungry governments that fund them. There's nothing we can do to honestly stop this because cops will protect there own even if there wrong. like the cop in the news that wouldn't send an ambulance to help a father who just had brain surgery and was having a seizure all because the girl was obviously upset and scared and she cursed. It pisses me off to the point that i have lost all faith. END RANT.

NOTE: this is in no way directed towards the thousands of good cops who go to work and risk there lives for the American people i hold plenty of respect for them.

[LakeCleElum]

Mark - A few thoughts: Kittitas County (Ellensburg) does not have an airplane, the State Patrol (WSP) does. In my experience, they only work with their troopers and do not have county deputies pull the car over and write them up.

Additionally, for an airplane to get a speed on you, you would have had to passed an area prior to getting stopped that have "markings" on the side of the road. If you know what you're looking for, they are easy to spot. I live in that area, so you can PM me and I'll go check that out for you when I'm back in town.

Other than that, I say, contest it, and suponea in the pilot, the person operating the stop watch and the deputy. Good luck.......

[mikester]

115kph is 71.46mph.

I know, I'm a master of the obvious. It doesn't appear that you were speeding from your side of the story.

[legion]

This is simply a cop writing a ticket that he thinks won't be contested. He gave you the story because of your license plates.

[Gogar]

Originally Posted by mikester

115kph is 71.46mph.

I know, I'm a master of the obvious. It doesn't appear that you were speeding from your side of the story.

Porsche 911s average a 4% speedometer error on the fast side. So an indicated 115kph could actually be 68.6 mph.

(I don't know that, but I know my (elec speedo) car is 4%.

[Dottore]

Originally Posted by Gogar

That's a shame. I do hope you follow up, even at some expense.

First, can you clarify a few things?

In your story, your first sentence speaks of the Washington State Patrol. Then, in your story, you state that a "Sherriffs car" pulled you over. Then, at the end of the story, you state he was in a truck (not really important.)

I only ask, because it's important WHO you got the ticket from. If it is the County Sherriff of (xxxxx County), or if it is the Ellensburg Police Department, chances are close to ZERO that either one of those departments has an airplane tracking speeders. If indeed it was the Washington State Patrol, then yes, maybe there is a chance, but if he told you some cock-and-bull story about an airplane, then maybe you can establish whether or not said airplane even exists.

If, indeed it was the WSP, then +1000 to what gassy has already said.

OK. First it was an SUV. My mistake. Second, stupidly I was so pissed off at the time, that the one thing I didn't note was which police force the guy was with. I am about 60% sure that it said "Sherriff" on the door, but I couldn't swear to this. I got his name and badge number though, and can presumably make some inquiries with the Ellensburg police. This happened just a few miles outside of Ellensburg.

[Dottore]

Originally Posted by legion

This is simply a cop writing a ticket that he thinks won't be contested. He gave you the story because of your license plates.

Yes. I know this is the case. I'm just trying to figure out how best to play this.

[Dottore]

Originally Posted by gassy

As of Nov '08, Washington St. only had 2 planes used for traffic violations. At a cost of $244/hr each. Do a Google map search of your surrounding location and see if there are even markers on the road for timing cars from the air.

Great advice. Will check.

[Rot 911]

Look at the ticket. It will tell you what agency issued it.
Next look and see how your speed was determined. There will be a box checked for radar, lidar, plane, etc. I wouldn't put it past the guy to have checked the radar box, if so you are SOL.

If plane is checked go to court and ask for a trial then request discovery from the prosecutor including the flight logs of the plane that supposedly clocked you.

[Dottore]

Originally Posted by Heel n Toe

I wish you well on this, but IMO, you brought a little attitude of your own to the table. "I think not" was not a diplomatic way to take up the discussion.

I won't speculate on whether you could have turned the tide with more carefully chosen words... who knows... but you challenged him a bit too soon in the exchange.

Yes. My attitude was in response to his though, and came out because I was so right on this, and his story so obviously fabricated. Still...