Educate me on inflatables...
 

You all have sick minds! I am talking about this kind...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1248033365.jpg

I am thinking of getting one for lake use. Preferable something that would fit in the back of the FJ when defalted/folded up, and haul me + wife + dog + a cooler. I'd like to get an outboard for it.

Questions:

-How much should I pay for a good used one?

-Any brands preferred/to be avoided? (I have only heard of Zodiac and Avon)

-Some local lakes are electric motor only. Do electric motors suck?

-I see a lot of them with 25hp engines. Is that middle of the range?

-Any outboard engines preferred/to be avoided?

-Anything else I should know?

Thanks in advance,

Paul.

You are probably looking at something much bigger then the one I have but I have a Sea Eagle that runs a 2hp motor and has a wood floor. Not very big but I've had it for years and still works good. I used to take it fishing all the time and had hooks stuck in it and never deflated. I still patched it anyways just to be on the safe side. But it's been great fwiw!

I have a Zodiac with a 4 hp Honda 4 stroke love it ! Engine weighs about 25 kilos so does the boat. A 25 hp is nice if you want to do waterskiing but it's heavy ! a 25 hp will be hard to put on the boat if your alone and will cost a lot more than a 4-10 hp.

Is Orygun requiring all new outboards to be 4-stroke? The weight of a small 4-stroke (25HP-ish) outboard would ruin any thoughts you'd have of fun in an inflateable. By that I mean you'll need a weightlifetr wife to help move it, and then consider that you'll be mounting it near or on the water. Think arm length vs. load.

If you are allowed a 2-stroke, the newer 2 strokes have a HP/weight ratio FAR superior and even have a direct injection mix. Meaning you put the oil in a tank on the engine, and it mixes with the fuel automatically. Very clean burning too.

Check out West Marine as well, their store brand is made by the big name guys (same warranty) but sold cheaper. Stay away from bargain basement brands.

I'm considering one too at some point.

My wife's family lives on Portage lake in the UP, and they can't seem to keep any of their fleet of boats running. The last three times I've been up there, I haven't been able to get in the water. I plan on ensuring that never happens again.

I wouldn't buy an inflatable used, but I'd consider a used motor.

Do they generally need to be registered? What else do I need to know about inflatables?

Good question. Anyone?

What about SeaEagle?

Where can I buy a 2-stroke outboard?

Watch things like Craigslist for used O/B's. Check a lot of the 'local' repair shops.

AFAIK, you need to register if the motor exceeds some specified HP. I think electrics are exempt. Probably different by every state.

There are still 2-strokes being sold new.

In Michigan, if it's under 16ft and propelled by man power it doesn't need to be registered. Once you put a motor on it you have to register it. Mine was registered but that has expired because I don't have motor for it anymore.

as a diver i have been in and used juan for quite some time. ours was/is a 14ft avon w/wood floor. 1st dont get a wood floor. prone to crackage no matter what anyjuan says. get the aluminum floor and it will never split. to avoid your ass from being burnt to hell by sitting on alum floor place indoor/outdoor carpeting w/stickyback tape on it.

be damn smart loading juan with weight. equal all weight out. anything you place in it plan on going overboard sometime. in other words tie everything in.

they will flip in the event of wave action and wind getting underneath bow. ask me how i know..........one stormy monsoon day here we noticed, 2 kids stuck in bad storm w/lightning on a dead jet ski. i went out solo since my 26 ft boat was already on trailer to help them. grabbed them and hauled ass back to dock. dad pleaded with me he was still making payments on jet ski, so i went back out to retreive. on my way to floundering jetski, i hit wave and wind at the perfect moment and over i went.

this is why you tie everything in and WEAR YOUR DEADMAN CORD to kill engine. i had my uscg approved vest on and just grabbed side of avon and floated around until wind abated and another boat came over and we flipped it right side up. no harm no foul engine fired first pull. it was a johnson 25hp. 14ft with a 25hp will haul ass. about 12 inches draft makes for shallow water fun going up lil rivers and streams.

to be honest..........spring for a zodiac grand raid and whatever your wallet can afford engine. we went thru the inflate/deflate bs juan too many times. we finally got trailer and left it inflated. most fun for the buck bote out there. 50 hp you can ski juan easily.

For the price of a Zodiac, I can get a decent "normal" boat.

The Sea Eagles top out at $1,600, the Zodiacs get up to $30,000.

I was also shocked at how much an outboard engine costs new. Once again, you can spend up to $30,000 on just an outboard!

These are pretty cool...

http://www.porta-bote.com/

For what you describe:
fits in your FJ, large enough for 2 adults, dog and cooler I think something in the 10 foot range is what i would look at. Mine is 9'6" and four adults plus cooler fit comforably. For the outboard: max HP depends on the boat but you can figure 10 HP max for a boat this size. Those with 25 HP are most likely RIBs (fiberglass bottom) and much heavier and don't fold up and much more expensive.

Inflatables in this size will be hard floored (wood or metal inserts) or a high pressure floor. With a dog, don;t thing high pressure is a good choice.

Boat material is PVC or hypalon. PVC is less expensive but must be stored out of the sun. Hypalon is more heavy duty and UV rays don't kill it. lots of info here"
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/westadvisor/10001/-1/10001/Inflatable-Boats.htm

Used prices? no idea as very few used ones show up. I bought both my boat and Nissan outboard from internet sites and saved quite a bit off local prices. With the economy now, locals may be more willing to deal however.

As to outboards, IIRC nearly all the outboards < 10 HP are made by Tahotsu, even if sold as Nissan or Mercury. Hondas are very good but pricey. The only 2 cycles available (as of a year ago anyway) were old stock as not legal to manufacture or import them anymore and the only ones available were larger HP. If you just want to dink along a 4 HP or < will move the boat. If you want the boat to plane, go with the biggest HP the boat will handle (or close to it anyway). Again, the heavier the boat, the more HP you need to plane it.

I have a 9'6" high pressure with a 6 HP Nissan 4 cycle and am very happy with it.

As someone else mentioned, I inflate it (using a compressor) and tow it to the boat using a small trailer. There is just no room to store it on the boat and inflating by hand is a real chore.

All:

Thanks for the info- much appreciated. Am I correct in thinking that Zodiac and Avon are the preferred brands?

Thanks again,

Paul.

yes zodiac and avon are numero uno. every once in a while a grand raid military surplus shows up on cheese bay and elsewhere reasonable priced. they are worth every damn penny. our avon was nice but next time its a grand raid for me. 16-18 ft with a 50hp will scare you pooless wide open. they are built to take a beating. ie rocks sand divers etc.

fixing holes in them is pretty easy. sticky patch with gorilla snot glue. a trailer is the only way to have fun. screw that inflate/deflate crap.

get launch dollies that permanently attach to transom(flat wood/alum thingy at stern) next to engine. they fold down when needed to portage and fold up out of way when in water. 2 guys can launch it anywhere.

2 MOUNTED fuel tanks is way cool. if you search furthur they have methods used by seal teams to muffle the hell out of engines fairly cheap. ducky tape around engine cowl is always insurance against a busted latch and any water intrusion. get spares and stash in MOUNTED dry box. plugs/tools/patches/glue etc.

a danforth anchor with 125ft of anchor and rode will come in damn handy. 4 handling lines off each side velcroed for insta use handy also.

we used ours a hell of a lot. love johnson mtrs. beat the hell out of avon and johnson and the damn thing still lives. think we got it in 1990 or so.

oh yea a bimini top is damn nice also.

follow all uscg rules for watercraft ie fire ext(2-MOUNTED)/pfd's etc. oars MOUNTED

I tow a mercury 11' dingy behind my sailboat with a 8 hp nissan. It is a soft bottom, not a hard bottom, it scoots along good with one person, two is ok and four it gets there.

I have the dolphin fin on the outboard which causes the dingy to get on plane easier and faster.

10hp outboards are much faster but they will suck 40% more fuel than the 8. My friend has a hard bottom with a 8 and a 10 hp, he usually uses the 8 because us sailboaters are tightasses on fuel.

My dingy also has a mounted fuel tank to the stern which gets the tank out of the way but its kinda expensive to buy.

Out here you have to have a whistle, life jackets for everyone in the dingy and not manditory but smart have a set of oars.

here is a pic of the tow not a great pic and not huge wind but a pic anyway.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1248200849.jpg

9'6" with 6 HP Nissan:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1248202750.jpg

Update: Got one!
 

All:

Just paid $750 for this...

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...um/Boat008.jpg

It came with this;

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...um/Boat011.jpg

Was purchased new in 2000, used three times then put in storage. guy died, boat wasn't mentioned in his will, ten years later his son-in-law got it, and decided to sell because he already has a boat. he was asking $950 so I am pretty sure I got a good deal. No leaks in the boat and the engine (2-stroke) runs fine.

Will update again after I get it wet!

Cheers,

Paul.

Even a boat with an electric motor needs numbers and registration. As for 2 strokers....afik, only Tahoe has banned them. But I would check any lake prior to showing up.

Not many manufacturers make them anymore because US EPA but the fear of God in them. But they are light and easy to work on compared to the 4 strokes. Take a look at the PWCs for an example.

I owned one and the dealer strongly suggested NEVER to deflate them.

Seriously... Got to factor supply and get you a little trailer, mucho easier lake weekends.

I've had a Sevlor for 20 years. Before the brand name was sold off they made boats of the same quality as Zodiac. Dual chambers, inflatable keel, 9hp rating. Now they only appear to make toy boats. If you see a older one forsale check it out....well worth the money.

It is registered and I will get the title from the Marine Board within a few weeks. Agreed on the 2-stroke thing. I may upgrade to a 4-stroke later. As for deflation, see below.

Got one- plan to use it to haul behind the Land Rover and save a bunch of time.

Cheers,

Paul.

Wow. That's quite a deal. If I saw that for $950, I'd go ahead and buy it without thinking.

I never go anywhere without my Johnson.

Argh, I hate 2-stroke outboards. I've had two, and both were the same http://forums.pelicanparts.com/suppo...leys/loki5.gif, evil, out to get me. I would test them in a bucket of water - fine, work well. Carry them across the road and put them on the boat. Wait for a break in the waves and go for it. Scream - dead outboard. I would row like a lunatic and get out the back, then five minutes later it would decide to go. One an eight horse Mercury and the other a four horse Mercury.

The next outboard I buy is going to be a 4-stroke Honda.

We have a Zodiac with a 9.9 Nissan 2 stroke. Alone in it you can easily plane. It's a 50:1 mix I believe so very little smoke, light weight and compact. FUN!

Congratulations Paul! Summer has just begun for you! That looks like a perfect size, let us know how the shake down cruise goes/ went.

Update:

Boat was fun, but stern (arse end) heavy, especially with my 180# sat next to it. Better with Mrs. K up in the bow, but she's only 100#.

2-stroke was a PITA.

So the other day I paid $700 for an 8hp Mercury 4-stroke. Much quieter & a lot less smoke.

Problem is, the new motor weighs about a million tons.

Questions:

-Is the 8hp 4-stroke going to feel similar power wise to the 8hp 2-stroke? (Stupid question but everything I read says they're 'different').

-Is the new motor going to be too much for my 9.5' boat? (Excuse for a bigger boat? :-))

-Is there even a market for an 8hp 2-stroke nowadays? Or should I keep the 2-stroke as backup/just-in-case/sell it & the smaller boat when we move to the USVI in 5 years?

Thanks in advance!

Paul.

A friend of mine has a similar boat to yours and I believe the HP limit on it is 5 or 6...
$700 for a 8HP Merc / 4 stroke seems like a good deal. If I were in your .... 'boat' I would sell
both 8HP motors and buy a brand new 5 or 6HP Nissan/Honda/Tohatsu 4 stroke.

There is little demand for two strokes like you have. They are old technology and finicky. We had a 2000 Jojnson on our pontoon and after a year or two it was so unreliable it made going to the cabin unpleasant. The startup ritual involved setting the choke precisely, set the throttle just so, say a little prayer, crank three times, push the throttle all the way forward, turn off the choke, say another prayer, crank it hard, say more prayers as it turns over, curse loudly as ihe engine catches but dies.

Three years ago we switched to a new Evinrude 2 stroke with ETech direct injection. It fits into the Johnson engine harness and is cutting edge technology. At the time it was the only two stroke that met current EPA standards and can go on Lake Tahoe if we wanted. It has an ECU so you just turn the key, it starts, you go. Every time. It was the price of a first class cruise for the entire family, but when you turn the key and hear it pop off the first crank, every time, it's worth it. Our gas consumption was cut about in half. We get almost a year out of a couple of quarts of oil. We used to hand mix and that was a drag.

Everything is a compromise. Four strokes are more reliable than the old two strokes but are heavy and expensive. New two strokes are just plain expensive. I think you'll be happiest with a new two stroke but it might be more than you'd like to spend.