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-   -   Could the Apollo program be done today? (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/486591-could-apollo-program-done-today.html)

m21sniper 07-21-2009 02:08 PM
We can just turn to Grumman to build them again.

Oh, wait....

tcar 07-21-2009 04:00 PM
...or cancel the F-22 program

...as they did today.

Tobra 07-21-2009 04:07 PM
No, we don't have the manufacturing capacity or collective will.

Schumi 07-21-2009 05:34 PM
I'll echo what others said and say that Voyager 1 is, while the least exciting, probably one of the most amazing spacecraft we've had, and it's still going. It will be going for longer than people will be around, possibly even after this planet is gone.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voyager_1

The distance that it is away from us right now it nearly unfathomable. And it still sends back a signal saying it's there. The farthest man made object away. It will also stay the farthest made man object away unless we come up with some amazing new propulsion technology as right now it is going so fast and is so far that no other probe we've launched or we will even launch will pass it.

nut11 07-21-2009 05:51 PM
Just got in... NASA has, regrettably, become an ossified bureaucracy that is simply incapable now of putting a moon landing together. I believe it hit its apex of incompetence during the Sean O'Keeffe era manifested by his ill concieved decision to defer the needed Hubble fix. He subsequently changed his mind when pressured politically. It's all cyclical. Lean, mean, hungry and innovative during the 60's. Fat, overindulged and lazy during the 90s. The old age of the shuttle fleet is testament. There's not the dollars, leadership and inspired institutional thinking to make NASA the kthe kind of exciting organization it was in the 60s and 70s. That kind of recipe will come from the private sector. Look at GM...

87 blk coupe

jyl 07-21-2009 08:26 PM
F22 production will continue through appx 2012 until the previously planned 187 are built. What was rejected was a proposal to add about 7 more planes to the tail end of production.

Quote:
...or cancel the F-22 program <br>
<br>
...as they did today.

m21sniper 07-21-2009 10:41 PM
7 more desperately needed planes.

The current buy is utterly insufficient.

Mr.Puff 07-22-2009 12:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cairns (Post 4788950)
"NPR had an article about how really rather useless NASA is. That most of Apollo and other spacecraft as well as the space station, were comprised of independent efforts brought together by NASA."

That has to be the CRAPPIEST POST OF THE MONTH.

It's one of the most absurd statements I've ever read on here. What do you think an executive agency is supposed to do? NASA brought together diverse people and companies (like Werner Von Braun, Raytheon and Lockheed Martin) and, more than executed, they made incredibly significant accomplishments that have yet to be matched by any other nation.

They restored our national pride when the Russkies were kicking our butts. Then there were the little things like Hubble, an international space station, a space shuttle, MARS rovers, deep space vehicles and putting a few guys on the moon. I was in Huntsville watching the launch on TV last week- going from zero to 17,000 mph in less than ten minutes is pretty impressive in my book. Those folks at NASA actually do rocket science- and do it very well.

Did you have any idea that Endeavour (STS 127) is up there now? Much less what they're doing? That they're working on a Japanese experimental module- the largest ever attached to the Space Station? Did you know the current mission will set a record for the most humans in space at the same time in the same vehicle, the first time thirteen people will have been at the station at the same time and will also tie the record of thirteen people in space at any one time? Probably not- as I guess NPR forgot to mention that sh**t.

But to the original post- sadly I don't think it could be done today- we lack the national will to even rebuild ground zero. We can't even build a nuclear power plant or repair the interstates that Eisenhower built.

Instead we squander our money and will building immense self perpetuating bureacracies and bailing out failed institutions like Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and GM while catering to special interests like the ethanol, mortgage, safety and union lobbies. And of course fund utterly useless kaka like NPR.

Maybe you could tell us what NPR has ever done except suck tax $ for mouthing uninformed, biased opinions that masquerade as reporting?
:) I like your style sir.

Schumi 07-22-2009 02:43 AM
cairns- two thumbs, way up.


I'm glad someone brought up endeavor and the ISS right now. Right now there's 13 people in space. Sure, it's only 212 miles up, but it's space and it's not here. And those people are living there for months at a time and longer.


With the money spent bailing out failing companies for things they did wrong, we could have went to the moon and started setting up a scientific base there.

cairns 07-22-2009 05:04 AM
Thank you Gentlemen.

When you read posts like this:

"The men who rolled up their starched white shirts at Johnson and the Cape every day for years, staying up late designing things had abilities and talents that simply do not exist in NASA anymore. They had intuition, experience, skills, and lots of hard core flight time under their belts, and they ate breathed and slept Apollo.

We don't have that anymore. When the best that NASA can do is less than .500 in intact probes, all of which ran over budget, over time, and under design requirements..."

....knowing that thirteen of the best and brightest are up there as this is written making real and concrete scientific advances...

...well you've gotta wonder sbout some of these posters and if they listen to anything other than NPR or CNN. There's absolutely no sense of history or perspective (how many of the original astronauts had "hard core flight time" and why would that be an essential requirement for a mission specialist?) and no knowledge of the present (Paz- try googling "Kobi" and tell us how someone built that thing and got it up there without using ability, talent, intuition and skill).

I honestly think we could be back there in five years or less if we wanted to. But that would take leadership, inspiration and national will. That's lacking in Washington, DC, not Houston, Huntsville or Florida.

Jim Richards 07-22-2009 05:23 AM
Effective leadership, a clear mission & goals, and proper funding to execute. That's just the same formula for business success.

jyl 07-22-2009 06:29 AM
I think NASA is doing good work with robotic probes. The failure rate kind of makes sense considering these are all one-time missions. The manned missions had plenty of failures too, in the early test launches. With the probes, the mission is the test.

The trouble with the manned Moon or Mars mission is the purpose, or lack of same. In my gut I'd like to see us go to Mars, but my head keeps asking - why? What can a man do there, in however long he can stay on Mars after a year's flight, that is so much better than what a robotic explorer can do? Or, considering the cost of a manned Mars mission, 20 or 30 robotic explorers? As for returning to the Moon, even my gut isn't coming up with much enthusiasm for that one. What's the point?

Jim Richards 07-22-2009 06:31 AM
Mining & low gravity spaceport for kicking off planetary missions.

jyl 07-22-2009 07:32 AM
I need to learn more about moon mining. Any good links?

m21sniper 07-22-2009 07:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schumi (Post 4791153)
cairns- two thumbs, way up.


I'm glad someone brought up endeavor and the ISS right now. Right now there's 13 people in space. Sure, it's only 212 miles up, but it's space and it's not here. And those people are living there for months at a time and longer.


With the money spent bailing out failing companies for things they did wrong, we could have went to the moon and started setting up a scientific base there.
Or bought enough airplanes to actually defend our airspace.

BRPORSCHE 07-22-2009 09:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cairns (Post 4791271)
I honestly think we could be back there in five years or less if we wanted to. But that would take leadership, inspiration and national will. That's lacking in Washington, DC, not Houston, Huntsville or Florida.
Cairns,
What part of the Country do you live in? I am less then five miles from Johnson Space Center. Everyday I drive by the old Saturn V laying on it's side. My neighbor (Cassidy) is on this current mission and just performed a space walk.

I am proud that I live in this area, and everyone gets excited for new missions. I am not directly related to the space agenc in anyway, but you can definitely feel the pride in Clear Lake this week.

Pazuzu 07-22-2009 09:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cairns (Post 4791271)
....knowing that thirteen of the best and brightest are up there as this is written making real and concrete scientific advances...
Please, tell me what scientific advances are going on up there.


Quote:
...well you've gotta wonder sbout some of these posters and if they listen to anything other than NPR or CNN. There's absolutely no sense of history or perspective (how many of the original astronauts had "hard core flight time" and why would that be an essential requirement for a mission specialist?) and no knowledge of the present (Paz- try googling "Kobi" and tell us how someone built that thing and got it up there without using ability, talent, intuition and skill).
Hahahahaaa!!! I have worked on NASA projects, I did research using data from a NASA probe (which ran over time, over budget, and under system requirements...), I was funded by NASA grants for 4 years, and I have worked on (meaning, turning wrenches) 50 year old NASA equipment, which still runs. Don't tell me that I have no perspective on what that boondoggle government agency can or cannot do these days, I know quite well. NASA could not currently put a man on the Moon in 10 years. Privateers could, NASA could if they literally turned over 90% of their current administration and personnel, but not the way they are now.

jluetjen 07-22-2009 12:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pazuzu (Post 4791955)
Please, tell me what scientific advances are going on up there.
Actually, my vision is corrected from 20/200 to 20/20 during the day by only wearing contact lenses while I sleep. The polymers used for these lenses were developed in the "Space Hab" module.

Quote:
Paragon Blasts-Off Into Space
Research and Development at Paragon Vision Sciences continues with an entrepreneurial spirit that has carried the company into Space. Experiments aboard the NASA (National Aeronautics and Space Administration) Space Shuttle, Endeavor, launched in the summer of 1993, and two subsequent space shuttle missions, explored new Paragon contact lens polymers and ultimately led the Company to its proprietary HDS® Technology materials. The experiment was performed on SPACEHAB, a special module created for commercial experimentation. Paragon's leading material, Paragon HDS®, as well as Paragon Thin™ and Paragon HDS® 100, utilize HDS Technology and apply advanced silicone hyperpurification to the manufacturing process of contact lens materials. Both Paragon HDS and Paragon HDS 100 are the materials used to manufacture Paragon CRT® therapeutic contact lenses for non-surgical corneal reshaping.
So there is a scientific and technical breakthrough which has resulted from the Space Shuttle, and which has been developed into a commercial product which is making my life (and others like me) better.

The question is, would innovation like this be possible under BO's proposed health inititive. (Oops, that may be an OTPR comment! :rolleyes: )

Pazuzu 07-22-2009 01:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jluetjen (Post 4792282)
So there is a scientific and technical breakthrough which has resulted from the Space Shuttle, and which has been developed into a commercial product which is making my life (and others like me) better.
I meant, right now, on the ISS. However, we could expand it to "what science has NASA done, itself, in the past, oh, 30 years?" Very little, most of it is independent labs (like your contacts), universities, and DoE projects. NASA suits think up some idea, then immediately pawn it off on whatever group is willing to sink too much money and time into it. NASA is just the check writer and bus driver for that independent research. All of the actual cool things that happen in space are the results of other people...the farther away you are from NASA while working on a project, the more likely it'll be cool and useful and succeed.


Those are cool contacts though!

cairns 07-22-2009 01:47 PM
Paz why don't you google the mission and see for yourself? You might actually learn something, develop a little perspective and gain some appreciation for the folks who are up there working their *ss*s off.

The way you're dissing NASA sounds like sour grapes to me. Generalized mindless kaka that has no basis in fact. Turn over 90%? Why not 87% Or 94.2%?

If NASA needs a 90% overhaul what would the rate be for DHS or the Labor Department? Is the number related to that "hard core flight time" you mentioned earlier? Do you have to be over 18 to see it?

BTW I live outside DC. Usually upwind thank goodness.


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