heres an interesting phenomena i have found over the years of hunting, pertaining to FMJ vs JHP rounds.

since ya cant use FMJ for hunting here, yer by law subscribed to hollowpoints(more humane?) anyway when shooting federal 168 gr BTHP rounds i have seen (2) different wounds on exit side of critters.

1) entry .308 diameter............EXIT: .308 diameter

2) entry .308 diamter..............EXIT: as BIG AS MY HAND!

shots always placed in standard run of the mill everyday as per the book "breadbasket" on the animal. just above front leg so as to nail heart/lungs and drop the critter.

shots have always been 100yds to 500 yds give or take.

now we have taken .308 FMJ and shot watermelons/water jugs/gas cans/maurauding refrigerators/washers and dryers etc. and the exit wound is once again as BIG AS MY HAND!

what the hell gives here????

inquiring simple minds want to know.

The 168gr Sierra JHPBT match projectile is used in the M852 7.62x51mm US Military cartridge, and is actually not designed as a hollowpoint for the purpose of enhancing expansion. The hollowpoint configuration is utilized to maximize the ballistic coefficient of the cartridge. Since it was not specifically designed for expansion the round has been ruled by the US Army JAG and other relevant bodies to be combat legal for US Snipers of all branches.

The fact that expansion is not really a key design goal of the cartridge probably explains why it fails to expand in many of the critters you shoot.

I have lots of choices with this thing.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1251224036.jpg

It's not really my normal carry gun but it fits nicely in a tank bag.
Jim

WHOLESOME GOODNESS! LMFAO! too damn FUNNY! I LOVE IT! didnt you mean "HOLESOME?"!

gawd that was good!


gawd damn if i EVER get into a gunfight, which will be the DARKEST DAY OF MY LIFE..............or the BRIGHTEST if i walk away............I WANT OVERWHELMING SUPERIOR FIREPOWER! cuz anythang less.............jest aint RIGHT!


WHO IN THE HELL WANTS TO GET INTO A GUNFIGHT??? CHEESE AND RICE! BULLETS HURT! just like car crashes,motorcycle crashes,train wrecks,plane wrecks!

NOJUAN with a sound normal mind wants to be involved anywhere near a gunfight! i hear rounds go off.............and im on the floor/ground looking for "EXIT STAGE LEFT!" and hoping like hell i carried that day so i can defend myself unlike "sheeple".

i'm too damn OLD TO GET HURT ANYMORE! i did that crap when i was younger and my name was "SUPERMAN!"

let me clue you guys on life...............there is only (1) SUPERMAN and it aint US! and i sure as hell dont feel like superman anymore these days. i hate doctors and they hate me.

the mindset all CCW owners should carry always is....i am prepared for the worst, i am trained to combat the worst, i will never divulge or display knowingly unless im in a " fear of my life or others" situation. i will carry safely for all of us around you, i will know my veapon inside and out, i will carry out proper maintenance of my veapon so if called upon it will function, and i will PRACTICE with my veapon (1) a month so my round may complete its assigned duty faithfully when called upon at my darkest hour.

kind of taken from the soldiers mantra : "this is my rifle, there is only one like it etc.........................



CCW is DEFENSIVE CARRY! not offensive.

I carry hollowpoints in my .45 with mercury-filled tips.

You guys all know I disagree with the party line on this one. I carry nothing but my own handloads, with my own hard cast Keith type semi-wadcutters. As far as I'm concerned, I cannot buy better ammunition. I can't even buy its equal.

As a hunter, I've shot a number of animals over the years with various revolvers and loads. I have never had a heavy for caliber, Keith type bullet fail to put one down. I've had a couple of highly touted JSP's and JHP's fail to penetrate on broadside shots on our mulies. While I have never lost an animal because of this, I have spent far too much time, and covered far too many miles of back country looking for them as a result of well-placed shots that did not drop them.

This has never happened to me with cast semi-wadcutters. I've only ever actually recovered one, and that was from a very large bull caribou. Even at that, it entered his chest from the front, seperating ribs from his sternum, and stopped under the skin right next to his ass hole. Over six feet of penetration from a 300 grain LBT at 1100 fps from a .45 Colt. No jacketed soft or hollow point will do that; very few would have made it past that sternum and into the chest cavity.

I want a defensive load that will do this. I don't want anything to do with a bullet that will fail to penetrate a heavy winter wool overcoat, a barricade of some kind, glass, car doors, or whatever.

And I'll accept the risk of "over penetration". I think it is simply way overblown. Gun writer hype, repeated so many times it has become sacrosanct. The chances of one's bullet going on to hit an innocent bystander after perforating the bad guy have got to be in the millions to one. I'll take those odds.

My dad swore by his reloaded JHP's in the .45 he kept in the nightstand. I think I helped him load those when I was in grade school. About three yrs. ago I bought him a box of HydraShoks and said I'm taking those reloads to shoot them off at the range. He didn't care anymore. A week later I went to the NRA range and loaded up a mag of those homemade rounds in my SIG P220, which will eat anything. First pull of the trigger - click. Recock, pull, BANG. Second round - click. I've only ever had my guns go click on homemade ammo and one single round of cheapo Russkie Brown Bear .30-06. For defensive ammo, I only ever use factory stuff. Their QC is way better than mine.

On a FMJ rifle round, I expect that there may be enough energy left on the exit to continue to do some damage. With a pistol, especially something like a .45ACP, nope. Not much energy left if it makes out of the body.

summer time synopsis:

get up at 330am do all outdoor work
go to job at 6am
come home late afternoon,HIDE FROM SUN! god help yer APS ELECTRIC BILL if ya turn A/C down below 82 degrees(my bill last month was $330!)
sun goes down at 8pm take dip in 100 degree pool water and watch bats fly around.
go outside when its cool out at 10pm and its only 110 degrees!

51 years of this summer heat crap and its getting WORSE!

believe me come deer season this year................im a gonna nail me juan or die trying!

i sure as hell WILL NOT BE ABLE TO BLAME MY RIFLES or BULLETS![/QUOTE]

oregon is much nicer than az, you should look at relocating

I fully agree wrt using only factory ammo.

Jeff you and i have disagreed before on this subject, so no point doing it again. ;)

I respect your views though- and i hope you respect mine.

LOL. Instead of 360 days of sun, you have 360 days of gloom. I looked at property in Corvallis once and, after five days in that cold, miserable & endless drizzle I was ready to shoot myself with JHPs. :(

9mm gets +P JHPs. .45 ACP gets plain 'ol 230gr JHPs.

The way I look at it, .45 leaves damn near a half-inch hole even if it doesn't expand. Probably more than enough to ruin anyone's day.

hydroshoks...that is all i have. hope they work when needed.

You "carry" in SanFran? :confused:

negative! i have it "handy" in the house, so when the badguy comes into my home, and i try, and try to sneak out of the house to retreat to safety, but fail, and find myself backed into a corner, i will pop one or two hydroshoks into centermass. i am surgical in lengths representative of my tiny home.

i need to move back to texas.

Oh, I'm sorry. The "home defense ammo" thread is over there ---------->

This thread is for the folks who live in free states where we are trusted/treated like adults and allowed to carry weapons on our person in order to protect ourselves outside the home, where most bad-guy encounters happen. :D SmileWavy

DAMN! i'll see myself out.....hope i dont get mugged.

Absolutely. This is a serious decision, one neither one of us takes lightly. You have perfectly valid reasons for your choice, and I feel I have the same for mine. Either will work. I do realize, however, that mine carries the potential of far more legal baggage. I'm o.k. with that.

Jeff, just so you know, i do keep 200rds of NATO "Q" 124gr +P+ 9mm FMJ ammo in my closet....in case the zombies come.

If there is some doomsday scenario the civilian 9mm JHPs are coming out and the max. pressure deep penetrating NATO FMJ's are going in. In 9mm nothing can match them for tactical barrier penetration, and the stuff is NASTY as hell out of carbine length weapons.

Corbon used to make really stoudt 147gr +P+ JHPs that did fantastic in my own shoot thru a car door/shoot through a hard drive tests, but they discontinued it years ago. :-/

I have a very limited supply of the stuff, but there's no getting more. It's a real shame. :(

"federal 168gr BTHP PREMIUM MATCH"
charles
I'm pretty sure I have a case of that stuff stashed, it's too good for my purposes. Would trade it for two (or three?) NATO spec should you find yourself in my neck of the woods. Oops, my bad, you wouldn't know what woods are in AZ. Just call if you get close.
Jim