496 vs 525EFI's mercruisers

charleskieffner · 09-18-2009, 07:03 AM

anyjuan here have any experience with either engine platform? pro's con's ups and downs?????????

how many hours expected life out of each?

yes im aware of cost per unit difference on the crate.

but does longevity of the 525 exceed 496 due to beefier parts in 525's.

i cant tell you anything more about this super secret black ops mission unless you have a super secret decoder ring. if you do have a super secret decoder ring..............

type in F-O-U-N-T-A-I-N-3-8-E-C

basically we are talking 60mph vs. 70-75mph give or take. 99.99999% fresh water use.

as always we ask alot of questions before pulling trigger.

shoving 16,500#'s thru liquid i tend to want accurate answers wayyyy up front. this aint for the faint of heart or wallet! and neither my heart or wallet can afford to make a stupid move on this future life acqusition.

nota · 09-18-2009, 12:00 PM

same basic motor [454] bored and stoked
bigger one may not last as long

if you want long lasting spend more for a diesel

personally for an extreme go fast boat
I would use a turbo on a small block ls6
for less weight [alloy] and cheaper cost
and it will spin faster too

mattdavis11 · 09-18-2009, 12:35 PM

GM and longevity are not synonymous. As for speed, test it in calm salt water, you'll get better numbers.

charleskieffner · 09-18-2009, 03:53 PM

now since we have been doing this bote thang in one form or another for awhile, we kind of have some connections in the industry. ie. i sold a few machine tools for many of their cnc mills and lathes.

my meanderings today took me to one of those places were we had a very fine relationship on the werk level and on the r&r level.

bergeron marine here in mesa az. phil has been around quite some time now. like about as long as i can remember and i have lived here all my life. the standard drill with phil was a case of coors light on friday afternoons and you usually got the purchase order after being beat upon the head and shoulder area with a mercruiser drive. as my friend got a boat, and then i got one, we were guided by phil on not making stupid decisions. and the case of coors light drill on fridays equally applied on fridays, when he worked on our boats. after phil ran me thru my 460 king cobra drill and king cobra drive basics, i never had a problem with it and thats proven by putting 188 hrs on engine/drive in 1 year. in comparison average boater salt or fresh water ONLY puts 25 hours on engine and drives big or small, slipped or trailered.

now this is coming from someone very familiar with wayyyyyyyyy over the top go-fast top fuel hydro capsule boats. so i tend to believe him pretty much when i ask him a question. as well as his son running very fast circle boats for quite a few years.

and heres what he said..................

off shore racing and offshore fishing guys have better longevity across the board with BLUE MERCURY RACING ENGINES(525), unlike the black mercury engines(496), which have a lower life span apple to apple components.

now this is from someone who werks on them all day for the last 35-40 years. he doesnt sell boats, he werks on them, and sells/builds custom motors for you name the application. if it gets wet they werk on it.

phils last toy he had was this monster with (3) 300 HP johnson outboards. insane boat with insane speed and reliable as hell. nice unit but i need my poop deck for diving and that precludes going with (3) mega outboards which as we all know is simple as hell to werk on, vs werking on a big block down in the bilges of doom!

so my next quest to seek wisemen will be actual owners. now when ya go to a boat distributor the answer you will get when asked the same above question "which is better?????" is whatever we have on the lot to sell you right this second and play on yer emotions.

now as we all know the boating industry is flat on their ass and they are on the bottom of the food chain when it comes to recovery. which will take years. also evidenced by reggie fountain pulling chapter 11 after just recently buying baja boats from brunswick.

now is the time to buy................any boat. my warning: be prepared to be sold what you dont need or want. be prepared to be bombarded with phone calls from salesmen, be prepared to have yer arms ripped out of their sockets when leaving boat yard w/out buying a boat! at this point i think a boat salesman for a brokerage would sell his mother wife g/friend daughter dog and gnaw his arm and leg off while donating his kidneys and heart to you for a commission.

basic economic premise pounded into my lil skull.............BUY LOW! and it is very very very low for boat sales right now.

my quest continues................thank you.

VINMAN · 09-18-2009, 04:12 PM

525's Plain and simple.

VINMAN · 06:22 PM

Charles, heres the race we had last weekend here in NJ.

Boat that I drive is at 1:27 in the vid ( yellow and red). this is going out the inlet to the ocean on the way to the start.

charleskieffner · 09-19-2009, 04:51 AM

KOOOOOOL VIN MAN! question for us older aged guys who just refuse to grow up................? and are bound and determined to go out the american way, which is in DEBT!

are yer engines staggered. what is advantage? weight? maintenance?

asked the question on another forum and got no answer. have heard from one guy the next boat he was gonna get would be staggered due to changing out starters and plugs. makes sense to me since werking on my 460 king cobra i was about 6'1" TOO BIG and i'm 6'3". PITA gaining access. dont know if fountain staggers them on a 38EC.

my biggest pita will be draining drives and blocks for winter when i leave it at powell which is ultimate goal after rigging and shake down cruises. powell is 4400 elevation. home is 2500 ft so i dont really have to worry here.

another question ??? how do you fire engines up when on trailer at shop/home? muffs with water running thru drives or do you have giant ass buckets you drop drives in to suck up water with hoses filling them? king cobra single drive i just used muffs with hose attached.

i have learned they are just like planes/dirt bikes/racey cars and trucks and they dont like to sit for any great amount of time not being used, and it behooves you to fire them every once and awhile. my property is a rectangle 1.5 acres with house in middle. u-shaped drive all the way thru property going along east/west side of house. it will be parked on east side so it doesnt get afternoon sun baked. i have a 110 outlet to plug into shorepower to keep batteries happy and hose bib right there to wash/fill tanks/plug into drives when i need to fire up. same drill as with 26ft cruiser pig i owned. backyard is fenced because of pool and it will be secure there. i do have to widen both my gates as presently they are 12ft wide and this will have a wider beam vs. old 8'6" beam(trailer bunks/fenders). also i have a goofy wood framed,tiled roof playhouse i have to demo to make room.basically buy a case of beer, line wheelbarrows up, and start attacking with mil super sawzall FROM HELL to make way for this damn beast!

the coolest thing i found was regarding insurance on these damn thangs...........when asked "what kind of boat do you wish to insure?" you reply a "cruiser" thereby getting the cheaper rate vs. A GO FAST! yuck yuck yuck! last i heard from this guy he was insuring one for 265K for $515 bucks a year FULL COVERAGE/sinking/hurrikanes/theft/fire/ blah blah. i used boat u.s. last time and they were very reasonable with my uscgaux rating discount thrown in.

slinging 16,500 pounds of poo along at 70-75mph WOT is really not my description of cruiser, but if they say so............i'll be happy and go with it! LOL!

charleskieffner · 09-20-2009, 04:35 AM

vinman what drives are you running? will they hook up to 525's? what is the best combo for merc 525 and mercruiser drives?

same basic drill removing as my OMC?

what about changing out impeller? simple easy? or PITA?

back in 1990 that was one sales feature of OMC vs. mercruiser was changing out impellers. omc was simple and could actually be done underwater if ya were damn good at NOT loosing bolts.

what about lubing gimbal? pull drives and then hit zerk(zert) with grease gun? on the mercs?

thanks?

VINMAN · 09-20-2009, 04:29 PM

Charles, I run Merc SSMII's (Speedmaster 2's) which is a TRS drive upper with racing lowers. They are older drives. Merc stopped making them back in the early 90's The drives in the pic below are are the regular TRS's before I put the Speedmaster lowers on. The Speedmasters put the props about 2 inches lower and 3 inches farther back in the water. Maintenance is simple on them, grease fittings all over the place.
The motors are staggered. Staggering helps with weight distribution, and puts the drives closer together. and lowers the X-dimension. also helps with giving you a little more room to work on them. My boat has a ton of room to work with, its heaven! My drives dont have water pickups in them. I have to hook up a hose to the water pickup on the hull, to flush it.
The yellow boat in the vid belongs to a friend of mine . I drive the boat, he throttles. Its a 24' sunsation. that runs a 427 tall deck in it. puts out about 540 hp
he runs a Bravo drive on it. it really needs a Bavo XR which is a stronger drive. (we keep blowing up drives on it.)

charleskieffner · 09-20-2009, 06:48 PM

hey thanks for the info and the great pics. with fountain/baja going chap 11, and the entire boating industry going down the pooper with a rocket tied to it, there really are some insane deals out there from inventories still on lots 2006-07-08-09's. let alone all these clowns who hung their ass out into space via the stock market or via screwball creative real estate and loans upon loans upon loans.

the boating industry being on the tail end of this entire debacle does give me ample time to be in the KATBIRD SEAT and swoop down and PREY ON THE UNFORTUNATE!

and after looking at just the central u.s. fresh water lakes ya cant swing a dead kat without finding a boat for sale let alone any other portion of the country with fresh water lakes including az utah etc.

my amigo and i discussed this at length today, and we about fell outta our chairs looking at some of these uber $$$$ boats going for unheard of prices.

im just looking for reliability for the long haul and some beans when i feel frisky or when i got to beat a storm and get into cover. and that has happened to me twice now with last boat and things got real ugly with wind lightning(mega mega lightning) waves and insane amounts of rain. monsoon storms sink alot of boats here, and if ya get hit by a microburst............well lets just say this.............."HOPE YA GOT A DAMN GOOD ANCHOR and 10-1 rode on it!"

guy i met in orlando has a 38EC fountain and has invited me and wifey to come out and spend a day on his boat ripping around. may take him up on it. fer sure gonna get a marine surveyor involved(aka PPI) as anyone with a porsche would also before buying.

boats are headaches alot of times like anything else, but when ya do it right, think things out, balance the goods/bads/uglys, and make some sound decisions they run like a top just like a 911.

buy LOW.............never sell..........bury me in it. a la a viking funeral!

latest rumor is fountain is getting picked up by a canadian consortium with deep pockets and reggie fountain may still be at the helm of the restructured company when it comes out of chapter 11.