Dog/cat/human psych experts needed

[john70t]

Background Situation
The longtime girlfriend has a 7-10 y.o. Jack Russell(aka Napolian or Mr. Surley) which is bonded to her, and her alone. She has been through a lot with him and has a attachment, which I can relate to.
Unfortunately he is bred with the instinct to get into a position of control and defend it (person, food, room etc.). A couple years ago, late at night, he bit me in the ankle coming back from the bathroom. He was under the bed defending it. There have been other situations in the past with other people as well, but they are all based upon "defending situations".
After that, she agreed to get him neutered, and he was banned from the bedroom.

For a while the situation improved quite a bit. She played bad cop, while I loved on him: twice daily walks, drives to the store, playing chase, swimming, food scraps from me alone, socializing him in public, etc, etc, etc. Trust me, I did everything I could.
We thought we had him figured out: bedtime after dusk because the demon comes out at night, no sudden movements, leave him alone with food, let him come to you, etc., Then, recently there were a few (random) situations which left me again fearful in my own home. There didn't seem to be a source and nothing she or I tried seemed to work.

Current Situation
A few days ago, she convinced me to "just look at cats" at the pet store. It was an opportune time as the dog's leg is in a cast(dont ask).
Of course we brought home the greatest kitten ever birthed on this planet which I wanted to name "Kawasaki 50cc". Big for his age and with claws, of course.

The dog is a little afraid of cats, but he has shown a streaks of pesky/playfulness in him which might turn out to be complementary with a cat. He also would be distracted from me. My thought was that the dog wouldn't view him as a similar threat, and hopefully there'd be some bonding going on because Kawasaki is a true lover boy.

The first day Kawasaki aclimated quickly, but later was desperately mewing at the windows looking for his buddies. The pet store has its animals in an open environment so they are well conditioned to other animals and people.
I jumped the gun, and bought home his brother for companionship. What's the difference between one cat or two in terms of maintenance anyways? The two of them spent the first 10 hours at slightly below the speed of light on every surface except the ceiling, and the next day sleeping together under the basement couch. However, the brother is slightly more shy with people and absolutely terrifyed of the dog.

Senario Questions
A) Take the brother back to the store. One cat one dog.
-At different times we both had thoughts that the dog would be less afraid of one cat than two, and thus less apt to try to kill the weaker one. Kawasaki has stood his ground a couple times around us, but we don't know what would happen if the dog ever cornered one of them for real. They are still too small to truely defend themselves, and I'd like to declaw them if possible after the pecking order has been established.
-If we ever let two clawed brothers outside, we'd never see them again.
-The brother is terrified of the dog now, and will only stay that way. Not good for him.
-Kawasaki would be able to bond with the dog and they'd become buddys.

B) Keep the brother. Two cats one dog.
-The kittens need each other. Period.
-The dog will watch them playing, and want to join in. After he was neutered/socialized, he started showing a positive interest in other children and dogs playing. He has the "happy dog" streak in him which just needs to be brought out over time.

C) Put down the dog as a liability. Two cats no dog.
-Not an option.

[Racerbvd]

Go with 2, give the shy kittens lots of love & protection.. Don't break up the pair....

[mossguy]

two cats, no dog.

[924slover]

keep both cats it may take a while but they will acclimate to each other if not just tolerate each other.

[lm6y]

Then, recently there were a few (random) situations which left me again fearful in my own home.

Really? Over a Jack Russel Terrier? Don't get me wrong, I love animals. They aren't college graduates though. They don't understand little games. They are animals. When he bit you, you should have booted his ass across the house. And repeated this every time he got aggressive. He would have understood this much better, that is his language, and this would have established you as the Alpha in the home. That is what animals understand. It's canine instict, fight to be the "Top Dog". We really haven't bred that out of them, and probably never will.

One of my Labs was like this, and that's why I got him. He didn't like the previous owner's new baby. A 70lb lab is a bit more intimidating than a Jack Russell. After about the third time I hauled off and busted his nose, when he got aggressive, he got the picture. We were best buds forever after that. I know that dog would have given his life for me if it had ever come to that.

I am in no way condoning animal abuse, but you are doing Napolian a great disservice by letting him act this way. If he got out and "dominated" a child, he would be put down, or you would have your pants sued off, and rightly so.

And before anyone says I don't know anything about animals, I have two Lab mixes, and four cats. All six of them were rescued animals. My oldest Lab was severely physically abused, and had Anemia, and Cancer as a puppy. He was a "throwaway" animal. When I brought him home, I honestly thought I was just giving him a comfortable place to die. But with a lot of Love, Good food, and a small fortune at the vet, he's been beside me for 11 years now. The others have similar stories as well.

But John, you need to seriously get a handle on Napolian. You will all be much happier. Sometimes it just takes tough love.

Good luck with it, and I hope it works out for the best.

[jhynesrockmtn]

One other comment, do your research on de clawing cats and talk to your vet before you do it. Not much to add on the dog situation, you do need to get control and establish a pecking order. Not sure 2 cats is much different in the house than one.

[svandamme]

Kittens will figure it out...
Warn dog that his days as prima donna are over since the kittens will become cat's, and unless they were born retarded, they'll manage the dog with ease.

Do not declaw em.. if you need to declaw em, get something that doesn't have claws to begin with.. or at least declaw yourself first to see if you like it.
simply get their nuts fixed, they won't run away if they lost the functionality of the nuts.


On a side note, Boris brought in 5 baby mice yesterday... one at a time.. dead, still warm..Then he brought in mummy mouse, and daddy mouse...
We're talking genocide here... in a time span of 15 minutes.

When i went to bed, just seconds away from fully a sleep... he did it all over again... a family of 4 this time...

Boris is a stone cold killer.

[varmint]

in every case like this i've seen the woman, it's always the woman, is subtly encouraging the animal. when he snaps at you, does she attempt to comfort and soothe the dog? while it's growling at you, does she stroke the dog. does she talk to it in a warm approving voice?

if she flicks the dog on the nose, or tossed him in a crate every time he showed hostility it would go a long way twoards solving the problem.

[Rikao4]

Varmint is correct..
she thinks it's 'cute' how he protects her & stuff

your talking about my Murphy..(Terrier)
little guy thought he was a Rott..
he grew up with my Rotts,
the cats will handle him..
time you did the same..
no need to be brutal..
crate..or small corrective collar..
growl..No ! followed by little growl. No.ZAP..

Rika

[stomachmonkey]

Keep the cats.

They'll all sort it out.

Good thing is they are kittens.

In my experience adult animals tend to take to newcomers better if they are kittens/puppies.

Don't separate them too much.

Natural instinct is for them to "negotiate" their spaces.

If you keep them apart you just end up creating territories for them to defend.

[john70t]

Thanks for the advice.
The GF has been good with scolding him, but he's even growled at her a few times. When he's bad he gets put on the cold hard floor of the bathroom and loses his rights. We've discussed putting him down but she backed away from it at the last minute. "Next time" she says....
He is on a short leash, but then so am I.

The interesting thing was the change in him after chopping the cajones. I would walk him with a firm leash at times to establish myself as "Alpha male" and there was definitly an improvement with his personality. He became facinated by kids and other dogs playing and would actually wimper and whine to "become part of the group". That was what I was trying to acheive with positive encouragement.

The "kick dog" approach would probably have instantly seperated the two of us, and/or not even worked on a Jack Russell. One of her former BF's did that, which probably contributed to his current behaviour.
More importantly, that is just plain not my style, and I wouldn't want that type of human/animal situation. Love it or lose it I say.

I'm getting more and more inclined to keep both cats-with the claws. I've read they are less skiddish when they have some protection(...). We'll have to figure out the outdoor situation(i.e. birdfeeders and running away) later on.

For now, the dog(now called Hopalong Cassidy) gets shut in the other room when she's not around. That is his space with his food, and he seems to like it there. The rest of the house will remain communal though.
Good tip on the early familiarisation, Stomachmonkey. We will have to make them all get together more in safe situations.

[Bill Douglas]

Give them all time. The new kitten will get used to the dog in a few months.

I know it's not very PC but if the dog leaps out and bites you, immediately grap him by the scruff of the neck, lift him off the floor and punch him in the nose - hard. later be friends with him so he is not frightened of you, but is put off the idea of trying to dominate you. My GF would recommend locking him in the crate/cage and no treats or kisses.

[Racerbvd]

Originally Posted by svandamme

Do not declaw em.. if you need to declaw em, get something that doesn't have claws to begin with.. or at least declaw yourself first to see if you like it.
simply get their nuts fixed, they won't run away if they lost the functionality of the nuts.
.

Plus declawing is the same as removing your 1st knuckle, and it is cruel..

Get some nail clippers & just carefully trim their claws, start em and give them treats after..

[RWebb]

I would lok around for a Vet who specializes in dog behavioral problems. There are some in large cities. Not cheap - as with any professional specialist, you are paying for their extra school, their extra debt with interest for the bankers, and lack of competition...

Also, yes, keep the 2 kittens.

[pwd72s]

Jack Russells...cute to look at...thoroughly neurotic dogs.

But I've never subscribed to putting an animal down just because it's inconvenient. A pet is a lifetime contract...one that should not be entered into lightly.

[Racerbvd]

Originally Posted by pwd72s

Jack Russells...cute to look at...thoroughly neurotic dogs.

But I've never subscribed to putting an animal down just because it's inconvenient. A pet is a lifetime contract...one that should not be entered into lightly.

I feel the same way, the lil girl giving me the Hi 5 is one that was going to be taken, with her brother & put down since the owner couldn't keep them, I have been trying to find them a new home, but being thay are older, and really need each other, I think they figure that they have a new home, as they are very well behaived, happy & always run to me when they see me..

[tabs]

Originally Posted by pwd72s

But I've never subscribed to putting an animal down just because it's inconvenient. A pet is a lifetime contract...one that should not be entered into lightly.

A BIG PLUS ONE...

Your Jack is fearfull, that is why he becomes agressive...busting the dog in the nose...that is just plain stupid.

I rescued a Jackie..when I got her she would nip at the hand of strangers...not now...I just gave her enough of love and reassurance to bring out some self confidence.

When ifirst got her she had a place in the living room that she called her outhouse when I left the house...got her a doggie door and that didn't completely solve the problem...then I started telling he I understood that she was upset when I left, no more problem now she marches outside...


Can not believe what a perfect little companion she is..


Had a Cat and an Airedale and then rescued annother Airedale...and after about 2 weeks they all got along just like Rodney King said we should...treat all of them fairly and equally. seems to work. Each has a place in the house..the dog has seniority and should be treated as such. hierarchy is important to dogs.


They do have to know whose word is the law, they expect you to provide it, they look to you for leadership, food, love and protection...they put their well being and lives in your hands. You are the Dad the BOSS.

BTW Airedales are not known to like cats..and my Airedale Misty was one he11 of a Ratter.

[vash]

this is a good thread. lots of good responses.

can a person even FIND a vet to declaw a cat? not in my area...zero, zilch, nada...no vets will do it. imagine clipping off the first third of your finger..believe me, after my near miss with the tablesaw, i have a new respect for the outer ends of my digits..i am positive our cat does too. plus, cats without claws have issues..i have seen them get meaner. and they have back issues because they cannot claw and STRETCH....typical cat move is to stretch when hooked into (hopefully) your cat scratching post.

i think you jumped the gun with cat #2, you hardly gave it enough time. but too late, go with all three, and hope for the best...two cats need two litter boxes...get ready for massive earthmoving activities when you clean up after them.

good luck

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by vash

this is a good thread. lots of good responses.

can a person even FIND a vet to declaw a cat? not in my area...zero, zilch, nada...no vets will do it. imagine clipping off the first third of your finger..believe me, after my near miss with the tablesaw, i have a new respect for the outer ends of my digits..i am positive our cat does too. plus, cats without claws have issues..i have seen them get meaner. and they have back issues because they cannot claw and STRETCH....typical cat move is to stretch when hooked into (hopefully) your cat scratching post.

i think you jumped the gun with cat #2, you hardly gave it enough time. but too late, go with all three, and hope for the best...two cats need two litter boxes...get ready for massive earthmoving activities when you clean up after them.

good luck

You can do 1 litter box for 2 cats.

Just use good litter, lots of it, keep it at least 4 inches deep and be fanatical with the scooping.

I have 4 cats on 2 big boxes, no issues.