Delta 767 lands on Atlanta Taxiway

greglepore · 10-22-2009, 11:17 AM

NTSB: Medical emergency forced taxiway landing *| ajc.com

Pilots discuss?

Mrmerlin · 10-22-2009, 12:29 PM

This isnt a good thing, and their attention diverted, mistakes like this can happen, also they didnt have a Localizer to follow as it wasnt turned on, I could see them being in a rush to get the plane on the ground, but you have to land safely first

MT930 · 10-22-2009, 12:29 PM

Never landed on a taxiway, they are great for takeoffs if no ones looking.Taxiing can be wastefull of fuel

Somebody is going to get canned for that.

widgeon13 · 10-22-2009, 12:38 PM

Pretty serious screw-up from my perspective. Good thing there wasn't another plane using the taxiway for T/O on 27R. Somebody wasn't paying attention.

lowyder993s · lowyder993s's Garage

Seems to be contagious...

Northwest jet from San Diego overshoots Minneapolis airport - SignOnSanDiego.com

boba · 10-22-2009, 03:12 PM

Had that happen once back in the mid-80's. Landing at Dayton, OH in thick fog the plane broke thru at 300 ft and was centered on the taxiway. Full power go round, there was traffic on the taxiway. Must have been some pucker up in the cockpit, no Capt standing in the door saying good by to everyone.

Cleaning up the mess I imagine.

rattlsnak · rattlsnak's Garage

this is one of those "im not gonna say it wont ever happen to me, but WTF???"

widgeon13 · 10-23-2009, 03:28 AM

The NWA Minneapolis situation is absurd, the crew should be brought up on charges!

T77911S · 10-23-2009, 05:20 AM

i work for the FAA at MYR. we have a small airport 15 miles north of here. one of the trolls up there was telling me he was working and the cleaning lady was up in the cab and said, i didnt know air liners landed here. he said he thought to himself, she does not know what she is talking about, then he turned around and sure enough, one was just touching down.
he said they had to strip the plane and bring in a special crew to get it off the ground.

when i worked in asheville, i heard a story of one lined up to land at a rest area. there was a rest area off the end or the side, cant remember know, but with the lights from the rest area, the pilot got confused.

there was this pilot that flew out of asheville when i was there. he ran out of gas, landed on the road and rolled into a gas station, gassed up and took off....so i was told

cashflyer · 10-23-2009, 05:21 AM

Great. More people on the unemployment line.

Now I'm not a high paid, fancy jet pilot, but I have flown long enough to know that the little blue lights are not on the runway.

T77911S · 10-23-2009, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashflyer

Great. More people on the unemployment line.

Now I'm not a high paid, fancy jet pilot, but I have flown long enough to know that the little blue lights are not on the runway.

if they did not want you to land on the taxi way, they would put red lights on it and not put it so close to the runway

rick-l · 10-23-2009, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by widgeon13

The NWA Minneapolis situation is absurd, the crew should be brought up on charges!

How long does a cockpit voice recorder store data? On the NTSB it says 30 minutes or 2 hours for digital encoding. I wonder if the snoring was captured on tape?

Joeaksa · 10-23-2009, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick-l

How long does a cockpit voice recorder store data? On the NTSB it says 30 minutes or 2 hours for digital encoding. I wonder if the snoring was captured on tape?

Or until the crew pushes the "erase" button after landing.

rick-l · 10-23-2009, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joeaksa

Or until the crew pushes the "erase" button after landing.

The fact they can erase it is surprising but I guess the CVR's purpose is not to serve as big brother.

Gogar · 10-23-2009, 08:48 AM

"The pilots were involved in a heated discussion about airline policy and lost track of where they were"

Yeah. Uh huh. Airline policy=football, or baseball, or chicks.
Why would someone think that making up a story like that would somehow help? Tell the truth, or say nothing.

Joeaksa · 10-23-2009, 08:50 AM

But you can only erase it on the ground, unless you know the correct circuit breakers to pull, fooling the system.

fingpilot · 09:44 AM

Couple of things. By no stretch of the imagination am I backing up the Atlanta guys. Lets do that one first.

Medical emergency aside. Atlanta is a BIG sprawling (multiple runway) airport. You break out of the clouds, and unless you have electronic guidance, you REALLY have to KNOW which strip of pavement you are landing on. Depending on lighting, condition of the touchdown zone (and the rubber-covered paint there), it is SUPRISINGLY EASY to mis-identify which strip of parallel pavement is yours.

Turns out, the medical emergency was a check airman who was on the jumpseat in the cockpit. He was ill enough to have to be removed from the cockpit decending out of 10,000 feet, and the approach and landing was 'expedited'. It was clear, nighttime visual to 27 Right. Runway chosen for shortest taxi to terminal. Approach lights and ILS was not turned on, but runway lights were. They landed on 'November', same width as runway. The taxiway is actually a little shorter than the runway......, and is between 27R and 27L. None of the REILs were on, no strobes, only the edge lighting. Wonder if 27L was lit as well....

Sea of lights out front, hurried checklists, sick boss on seat, night before was 'spent' in Rio, who knows what else (is probably why Check Airman was sick). If taxiway lights were turned up full, they would 'show' as bright as runway lights, maybe even losing the blue hue. As dark as airport surroundings are, full up lights are almost dangerous on a clear night. Not justifying, just saying. Until you've seen it yourself, it's hard to pass along. I know how easy it is to say WTF?!!

That said, I could name LOTS of airports that are tough to ident the runway from the taxiway (daytime) until much closer in. Even nearby airports. Concrete vs Pavement will 'show' differently in angled sunlight, one of them even 'disappearing' until close in.

Anyone ever landed at El Paso,Texas after 3 in the afternoon? There are lots of stories about guys landing at the Biggs Army Airfield alongside El Paso (identical RWY lengths and alignment), and El Paso tower asking how far out they are on final. When the answer comes back that they are on the ground, El Paso tower says to call Biggs Ground for taxi-back instructions.

The NWA guys. Can't fix stupid.

An Airbus A320. Will have the 2 hour recorder. Ok, lets put ourselves in that cockpit. One of them finally wakes up. Two most famous words in aviation. Then the real discussion starts. Knowing it's two hours worth in the box, do you delay, is it worth it (can you fuelwise), or do you erase after on the ground (a violation in itself), or do you take your bullet. You gotta know they both knew they were soon going to be at the ACME School of Truck Driving by the weekend. The NTSB has 'secured' the boxes. Comms were 'lost' over Denver. Rumors are that they were intercepted.

But how stupid to concoct a story about 'heated discussion' of company policy. Wonder which policy? The one about duty times? Layover slots? 8 hours bottle to throttle?

My NWA friends are pretty quiet on this one.

fingpilot · 10-23-2009, 09:48 AM

The diagram of the 27L&R area.

Mrmerlin · 10-23-2009, 10:24 AM

and on the otherside of the terminal is 26L+ R.
Atlanta sure is a big place, its lucky there were not any planes on the taxiway........ Although if there were planes taxiing on taxiway M, I would have to figure that the crew would have landed on the runway, as its pretty hard to miss an airliner at night taxiing

Neilk · 10-23-2009, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick-l

How long does a cockpit voice recorder store data? On the NTSB it says 30 minutes or 2 hours for digital encoding. I wonder if the snoring was captured on tape?

From the Dallas Morning News Aviation Blog-

Airbus A320 had 30-minute cockpit voice recorder
1:20 PM Fri, Oct 23, 2009 | Permalink
Terry Maxon/Reporter Bio | E-mail | News tips

Someone at Delta Air Lines informs us that the Airbus A320 flown by Northwest Airlines on Flight 188 had a 30-minute cockpit voice recorder.

If so, that would mean that any portion of the recording that may have included light snoring and murmured dreams would have disappeared long before the crew pulled up to the gate in Minneapolis-St. Paul on Wednesday night.

If the recording stopped the moment the airplane pulled up to the gate at 9:15 p.m., that means the CVR would have taped only the portion of the flight that came after the pilots had begun responding again to air traffic controllers.

I hoped they argued a little about airline policy to back up their story.