doink!
 

doink

Don't "surprise" him, give him at least 2 weeks notice.

Maybe he meant.......dont jump out of my bedroom closet with a rose clenched in your teeth?

He doesnt want you to quit,but since you don't have poece of mind... leave if you get a good opportunity. They won't hold off on laying you off if it's inconvenient to you. Don't worry about quitting being convenient for them.

Leave ASAP IMO, if you look for a counter offer you will be around for about six months, everyone can be replaced especially if you back them against the wall.

I think that is boss-speak for "Trust me enough to let me help you plan because I see things you don't but I can't help position you for what I have in mind for you if you give your notice without some advanced warning."

I would quite frankly tell him your concerns and options and ask if he has a better idea for you than to take option b, or whatever it is you're thinking about. I don't think this is too much trust to place in a boss. It's in his interest for you to succeed. What's the worst he can do to you if he gets offended by the idea of you looking around? Put you on the short list for a layoff?

so what you're saying is if you stay there will be trouble
and if you leave there will be double???

It means "Please leave, but give me a little notice".

I've walked away from very good jobs and people told me I was crazy, but I fell into better ones right away.
the job market is tough for most but not for all.

If you have experience, skills, and specialized knowledge that is in demand you should be shopping yourself around.

In all honesty, you know you don't owe them anything.

They've put you in a position to have to look around and worry about your family.

You can talk to him, but you need to take care of you and yours.

Mike,

Shut up and take the other position. You already know eventually that your head will be on the block, due to the outsourcing.

Your boss is being a jerk. The company created a bad situation. They layed off, others looked and found work, and they weren't prepared for those people to leave, yet. He can't afford to lose you right now. But that doesn't make it secure. Unless you force him to sign some sort of retainer agreement, where you have a minimum of a 1 year contract, with a major penalty if they lay you off sooner, like one year of pay.

You know what you need, which is stability, for your famlily and for your santity. You are not in a stable situation. Fix it.

If I had responded like an adult it would have sounded like this :)

I do not know exactly what to say here but...let me see if I can muddle through it.

I feel the days of staying put in one job for life are long over..It used to be you would be rewarded for staying with the company. You were given the opportunity to move up through the ranks.. Not so much anymore..

As far as job hopping, I would think that as long as the potential employer sees on your resume that you are improving your job position whenever you change jobs then it would not be so bad.. Just do not keep going from company to company doing the same exact job.

I remember hearing somewhere that the way to move up the corporate ladder today, was to job hop as you call it..

Lets face it, we see younger and younger people getting higher positions everyday because of education and job experience (from jumping jobs)..

You have to look out for you and your family,, in todays economy no one else will.. Your boss is looking out for his.

Oh by the way I am just some blue collar worker schlepping his way through life as a Firefighter.. so I have to stay put..

Good luck with your decision.
Gregg

Never EVER give your boss the remotest HINT of the fact that you are a "flight risk".

You owe him nothing. You owe the company nothing.

Just be professional.

red-beard, you hit the nail with the hammer there, totally agree, Mike sorry for the indicision in your life but if you have a place to go then go, don't surprise the boss, just don't moon him on the way out. Onward and upward Mikester! One door closes and another one always opens.

Tell him you've got another offer you're considering, and as a counter you'd consider an employment contract for three years with guaranteed increases of COLA+5% every year. Tailor that number to suit your needs.

Right now a guaranteed job looks pretty attractive.

Why not just jump off a bridge. I doubt any company HR dept is going to sign a contract these days and forget about a guaranteed 5% especially if the company has already said the person is on the fence. The idea is intriguing but I would see it as employment suicide.

Doesn't sound to me like mikester is in the strongest negotiating position.

The point is he has another offer now and his current position is precarious. He stands to lose little by negotiating, but perhaps much to gain.

Mike, did I misunderstand? Do you not have another offer with lots of opportunity?

I agree with some but disagree with others
 

I left a large tech company 1.5 years ago. My job was secure there, but I was going to have to move. Floated my resume and got a bite. Went from technical to management. I sat down with my old manager, and he said we'd like to keep you, but thank you for giving us notice and time to off load you.

Left the company and 11 months later was laid off by my new company. First call I made was to my old manager. He brought me back gave me a 28% raise, and a promotion from my old position. I still had to move, but the company paid for it.

Long story short. You know your manager best. If he is a good guy/ straight shooter, then let him know. He may offer you something better, or help you ease out gracefully. He also may be a great contact if things ever go south. If he is a dick, give him two weeks notice.

Interesting view but I respectfully disagree. Staying w/ a company for an approx 7% annual increase knowing that you have put a gun to their head in not a move to win friends and influence your boss. Unless you are indispensable and have dirty pics of the boss's wife, I'd be gone in two weeks.

I will be interested in how this all pans out.

Having personally been responsible for employment decisions for approx 25 years with my company, I never liked to have a gun put to my head and never continued employment with an individual who tried to negotiate more money or benefits vs another employment offer. I always wished them well and sent them on their way.

Mikester needs to look out for himself first and from my perspective that's moving on to an employer that wants his services. That also leaves his record clean to return to his former employer under good terms if the opportunity presents itself.

Adult, shmadult! He should send his boss this postcard:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1257533660.jpg

:D

For me a strong negotiating position would be one where I have a skill or knowledge that they cannot replace near term.

personally, I negotiated a promotion for myself on one occasion early in my career, two years after taking the initial position. I retired from that company 28 years later as VP Sales. I was able to negotiate the new position with my employer because had I left the company, I would have taken business away when I left, more than they could afford to see go down the street.

Wow. What a complex and difficult problem this is.

For cryin' out loud, ASK HIM. Ask him what he meant by "Don't surprise me." Sheesh!

Whoa...you surprise me! :eek:

+1

Mike,

If your boss is a good truthful man, ask for the same , "no surprise". Ask him if he has the power to keep you for an extra month or 2 while you hunt for a job, if a layoff comes. Ask him if he'll give you a good reference if a layoff comes.

If he got to be a boss by kissing up & backstabbing leave when you get the chance.

It always takes 3 weeks to find a problem but only 2 weeks to give your notice....
Sorry, doesn't quite apply here, but had to say it.

So, here's the thing. I've been on all sides of this equation, ie, "owner", "management", "labor", and of course even lower than "labor", "ball-wash".

FIRST!!!!!! DO NOT GIVE NOTICE UNTIL YOU HAVE IN WRITING FROM THE OTHER COMPANY VIA REGISTERED MAIL ON COMPANY LETTERHEAD AND SIGNED FROM HR, YOUR HIRING BOSS AND WHOMEVER THAT YOU HAVE A JOB! BETTER YET YOU ARE HIRED THERE AND ALREADY WORKING YOUR NEW JOB!

Ok, that out of the way, your idea of a "hint" or more than 2 weeks notice is a typical play someone does for more money. I'm not suggesting that is your intention. I am however saying how "management" will view it. Don't play that. Ever. Even if you get more money, in the eyes of the company (and your boss) you are not loyal. Guess where that places you on the food-chain. Gotta bulls-eye print? Great pin it to the back of your shirt. I don't even care if your boss is your father/mother/brother/lover. Business is well business!

Second, the statement was your boss's attempt at trying to get a pulse on you. Like poker and like others suggested, NEVER reveal your hand. Example? You have a facebook page and it is public and you mention that you are thinking about leaving or similar.

Third, boss and worker have two different purposes in a company. Your purpose is to get things done. Your bosses purpose is to (a) build a fiedom up, large enough that when cut back it doesn't cut back to him, and (b) ensure that "labor" is getting their work done. Believing your boss is your buddy or believing a relationship with a boss outside of a job scenario exists while certainly not impossible, is difficult at best, and not common (why is answered below in the fifth point).

Fourth, exactly what are you going to gain by giving more notice? If there is truly something to gain, so be it. Ok. But keep in mind the other company will want you ASAP. You are not the only person the other company is interested in. If you think you are working a fire-drill now, just wait until you give notice. Any extra time you give the old company will be quickly forgotten. Also, no matter how hard you may try, the custom has, is, and always will hold true, last guy to leave gets blamed for everything. Where's the benefit to you?

Fifth, your boss/company has needs and goals. You have needs and goals. Throw out what you were taught in leadership 101 and MBA whatever. There are no friends in business. There are only interests. From what you describe, until recently, the interests of boss/company have aligned with yours. That's great. When they don't YOU NEED TO CONTROL YOUR DESTINY. What give's you any sort of comforting thought or belief that an entity (boss/company) is interested in your needs? Makes no sense.

With all due respect, just going through the exercise to see if you can get it is not only a waste of time but may be possibly risking something more than you are perhaps willing to give up.

The "exercise" you propose is your ego talking, not you. In business, there is no room for ego, those successful take risk, but the key is it is calculated and has a purpose. Unecessary risk brings nothing but problems. Examples of ego run decisions? Look no further than the entire economic calamity we're in right now!

I can also tell you that right now, there is a cleaning of the closet going on in general, at the business level. Businesses are going under. Why? well they simply ain't got what it takes (aka mis-management on may different levels and many different facets). If you change at this point in time please be damn well sure that where you are going to is more secure than where you are at. Once you move, you're the new guy. Guess where you are at in terms of seniority? If where you are considering going is less secure than where you're at, what good is more money? In such a case, either ride this pig out or find some other opportunity which is more secure.

BTW, I presume that your co-workers (or those left) or boss(es) know nothing of the Pelican forum or your Pelican handle?

He knows you are going to quit. He wants a little notice.