RANT: Aftermarket sport seats

KaptKaos · 03-29-2009, 07:02 PM

I've been looking for "classic" styled sport seats for a while. There are not a lot of players in the space. Your standard players apply; corbeau, OMP, sparco, recaro, GTS classics, and a few others.

The choices for these classic styled seats are limited, and I understand that this is a niche market, but I have never seen such uniformity in pricing between retailers. No matter what brand, no matter what retailer, the same model seat sells for the same price almost without exception.

In my business, no one sells hardware or software for the same price. MSRP is a joke and almost pointless. MSRP is only used to identify the wholesale discount that a reseller can get from the company or distributor. It's never adhered to.

I get it that the manufacturers are setting the prices for their products so that there are no price wars, thereby protecting their retailers. It just seems so counter intuitive to me that there are never any discounts, sales, or other spiffs to allow some level of competition between retailers.

Am I missing something??

/rant off

// And yes, I am a CSOB, thanks for asking.

afterburn 549 · 03-29-2009, 07:06 PM

I will admit the price is outrageous..the only reason i payed it is for "if" i ever get to the track and they demand such hardware.
Other then that i would have made them

KaptKaos · 03-29-2009, 07:10 PM

It's not just the cost, but the fact that no matter what you do, you can't get a better deal.

Dantilla · 03-29-2009, 07:41 PM

I've got a pair that I found used.

I sold the car they were in, and I'm not using them right now, but I'm keeping them because they're so comfortable.

Keep your antennas up for a used set. Eventually you will find some at a better price.

GTSinLV · 11-17-2009, 04:10 AM

Hi and sorry for my late reply, just saw the threat now.
Well we have tried to keep the prices of our seats as low as possible and in the range what you would have to pay for an upholstery job...but frankly
We make our seats here in the US- most other are geting the from abroad.
We make any custom choice or modification.
We wish we could make them cheaper, but I am not manufacturing in China and I want to keep our standard as it is or better.
I invite you for a day to work and make a set and you tell me what you get as labor.Maybe I found someone who can make it better and cheaper

David · David's Garage

I wasn't too thrilled with paying $650 a seat for Recaro's, but keep in mind the more we buy on cost alone, the more manufacturing we send overseas.

javadog · 04:55 AM

I have found that you can buy seats from time to time at a discount from MSRP. Vendors do have periodic sales.

Having said that, there isn't a fortune in mark-up in these things, so I figure the retailer can't discount them a huge amount and expect to stay in business. So, I don't expect price wars.

Did I mention that I hate Wal Mart, and the 'gotta buy it at cost" mentality that they breed?

JR

Shaun @ Tru6 · 04:37 AM

Ahhh, the opportunistic capitalist. capitalism, free market economy, supply and demand...those wonderful inventions and core of the American Dream are great...for other people, or until you want something for free. Stomping your feet ain't gonna bring the price down. If you can't afford it, save until you can, but please don't whine about the price of extremely well-crafted, tiny-niche products because you think you deserve a lower price. Good lord, I've seen it all, the Accidental Socialist.

After doing some investigation myself recently into seats, I've seen, sat in and driven in two different styles of GTS seats and they are CHEAP for what you get. Anyone buying them, as I will in April of next year, should personally send Stefan a thank you note for having the balls to start a small company in the U.S. and produce top quality products for a tiny niche market.

now that's a rant.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KaptKaos

It just seems so counter intuitive to me that there are never any discounts, sales, or other spiffs to allow some level of competition between retailers.

Am I missing something??

/rant off

// And yes, I am a CSOB, thanks for asking.

Ever seen sales from:
Wevo
Smart Racing
TRE
Bilstein
Elephant Racing

and the list goes on.

just get yourself a pair of clapped out 80s Corbeau's and you'll be all set.

audiman08 · 11-17-2009, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by javadog

Did I mention that I hate Wal Mart, and the 'gotta buy it at cost" mentality that they breed?
JR

You do realize Wal Mart started as a small business like every other? People hate Wal Mart because it can outsell local businesses any day of the week. I live in a small town, where small businesses lack competition. What happens when there is no competition? People get price-gouged, customer service is non-existant, and/or selection sucks. So when Wal Mart comes into small towns and offers great prices, better customer service, and great selection...I don't shed a tear for these little price-fixing mom and pop stores that go under...This is a Capitalist country, and if your business can't offer lower prices than your competitor (with equivalent product) then it deserves to go under. (Stepping down from my soap box now)

dd74 · 11-17-2009, 08:40 AM

You pay to play, or in this instance "sit."

If you're worried about cost, you'll probably end up with some cheap Asian-made seat that will not last.

Niche markets where items are made with care can't afford to discount, and after all, why should they?

Honestly, if you want the good stuff, you'll pretty much have to make price a non-factor.

maxnine11 · maxnine11's Garage

Price out an original seat at your Porsche dealer, then get back to us.

audiman08 · 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa

Stomping your feet ain't gonna bring the price down. If you can't afford it, save until you can, but please don't whine about the price of extremely well-crafted, tiny-niche products because you think you deserve a lower price.

Right...so don't whine about price-gouging...suck it up and pay whatever the manufacturer demands!

I am not saying any of the above companies are price-gouging, but your way of thinking is archaic. This is the 21st century, and there is plenty of competition. No one should accept what they feel is unfair pricing, and you shouldn't make someone feel embarrassed about wanting a fair deal. BTW, why is it that Honda and Toyota can make some of the best quality cars in the world, at lower prices than most European makes? Great quality does not always equal exorbitant prices.

KaptKaos · 11-17-2009, 08:54 AM

There is plenty of competition for "ricer" or "drifter" style sport seats. I am not talking about a racing seat, but a seat with a little more support than a stock seat, that isn't styled like it was taken from the set of "The Fast and the Furious."

Stefan, I have seen your seats and love them. Not in my price range unfortunately.

My original point was about price fixing. If you saw my thread on converse sneakers (Converse All-Stars - Chuck Taylors - Why are they so expensive?) you'll see it's not just limited to auto parts.

Here's the bottom line: You can get a cheap pair of sport seats new, that look like crap, for less than $400 for the pair. Yes, this is what I was looking for. Something to just get me by. I didn't want anything fancy. Simple, basic, no frills, no sub belt holes or over the shoulder holes. Just a basic sport seat in black vinyl or cloth.

My point about price fixing is still valid. You may not like my point, nor my rationale but that doesn't negate my point. I never said that Stefan or anyone else doesn't have the right to do what they're doing. They don't have to sell anything to me. Then again, I don't have to buy their product either.

audiman08 · 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KaptKaos

My point about price fixing is still valid. You may not like my point, nor my rationale but that doesn't negate my point. I never said that Stefan or anyone else doesn't have the right to do what they're doing. They don't have to sell anything to me. Then again, I don't have to buy their product either.

I think your ideas probably represent the majority of consumers. You will always have niche companies with above-average pricing because they provide a sense of exclusivity. However, this notion that a product should bring a ridiculous net profit because it is made in the USA, and hand-built is silly. Obviously these companies either a.) are using top-quality materials that justify their prices, b.) have excessive overhead costs...or c.) are price-fixing with other competitors. People who buy into the idea that it must be worth paying an arm and a leg for because it's European, or made in the USA, or hand-made, or ______ (fill in the blank) need a lesson in economics. Unless there is an obvious reason for the mark-up (such as materials), there is no reason to pay a premium because something is "exclusive."

dd74 · 11-17-2009, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by audiman08

I think your ideas probably represent the majority of consumers. You will always have niche companies with above-average pricing because they provide a sense of exclusivity. However, this notion that a product should bring a ridiculous net profit because it is made in the USA, and hand-built is silly. Obviously these companies either a.) are using top-quality materials that justify their prices, b.) have excessive overhead costs...or c.) are price-fixing with other competitors. People who buy into the idea that it must be worth paying an arm and a leg for because it's European, or made in the USA, or hand-made, or ______ (fill in the blank) need a lesson in economics. Unless there is an obvious reason for the mark-up (such as materials), there is no reason to pay a premium because something is "exclusive."

Maybe it's because some people simply "want" it, and there's nothing wrong with that. I might want a Recaro seat for a variety of reasons - well made, racing pedigree, love of smaller niche companies, support of local manufacturer. Customers like that are a small company's life blood, and the loyalty between the consumer and manufacturer tends to be very high.

Most consumers, particularly those who are looking for a deal, mostly have very little loyalty. The lesson in economics is that hurts manufacturers and the manufacturing process as the bottom line becomes the only concern, rendering sub-par products.

David · David's Garage

While I don't find the seat prices too ridiculous, I do wonder why a DAS rollbar costs $900.

dd74 · 11-17-2009, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 125shifter

While I don't find the seat prices too ridiculous, I do wonder why a DAS rollbar costs $900.

Isn't DAS American handmade? If so, a lot labor hours and cost go into that. $900 seems fair.

audiman08 · 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dd74

The lesson in economics is that hurts manufacturers and the manufacturing process as the bottom line becomes the only concern, rendering sub-par products.

Not exactly, there are two problems with this idea. First, just because a company is niche, doesn't mean it's products are automatically superior. Do you remember the rise of Vector Motors? They are a small exotic car company, who made worthless cars and charged astronomical prices. Andre Agassi had one until it kept breaking down and got his $400+k dollars returned. The second problem is that just because a company makes affordable products doesn't mean it outsources to China and/or has crappy products. You can start a company, keep your overhead low, use machinery that does twice the work as human hands, and still use quality materials and make great products at a fraction of the costs as "exclusive" companies. Look at Jaguar...their cars have some of the worst reliability ratings in the industry, yet people shell out tons of cash for them because they want something exclusive (not reliable), and wouldn't be caught dead in a more reliable and cheaper Honda. I'm not saying you should always buy the cheapest things, but there should be a really good reason to pay huge premiums (besides being loyal to a company...who cares? are you married to the company?). I think a company should be able to stand-by their products without relying soley on a small base of loyal customers who buy into the company's image rather than the product. There's a reason these companies stay small afterall, while others grow and expand to buy out other niche companies.

deanp · 11-17-2009, 10:20 AM

"this notion that a product should bring a ridiculous net profit because it is made in the USA, and hand-built is silly"

You're assuming that there is a ridiculous net profit when you don't have any idea of the manufacturing costs associated with the product. In the case of seats that fit vintage cars I would suspect that the production runs are quite small, that materials are bought in smaller lots and are of higher grade, and capital costs such as tooling are spread over a smaller number of units. The volume is lower so you need a higher margin to keep the doors open.

teenerted1 · 11-17-2009, 10:31 AM

well you can always look to see what other offers each vender might have if all venders have the same products priced the same....

maybe they offer FREE FREIGHT? that looks like a discount to me.
also where is the vender located...the closer they are generally the freight will be cheaper and the product will get to you sooner.

and it never hurts to ask if they have samples or discontinued versions they are trying to get rid of...that is how i was able to get my GTS seats from his NW vender at a conciderable discount. under 200 miles away so the freight was pretty cheap too.