Another good .45 i once owned:

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...s/smith645.jpg

Nice gun! Great background!

Best,
Tom

Heh, the actual spoon pictured is not mine. Mine looked exactly like that though. It's a S&W 645.

SOUKUS so what did springfield say? get an answer yet? i'm sure they will accomadate you like no other mfg and if i were you i would ask for a new one with better tolerances held.


now as splained before.............ya paid $1000 bucks for a .45 with a lifetime warranty. which is fairly reasonable when ya start to look at custom shops offerings.


its kind of like my post on bolt action out of the box accuracy and having a custom rifle built by mcmillian or lazzeroni or whomever. ya get what ya pay for. and thats the entire crux of the biscuit.


now since this has denegrated as usual with a certain few here that havent a clue about gun mfg. let alone mfg of any product, let alone what actually goes into the daily dribble of a custom shop, please look and refresh your memory at custom shop prices. they really are NOT out of line for the hours of labor entailed to jewel/hone/polish/blueprint/finish all of the parts in a weapon.


so with that..........if ya want out of the box accuracy and a CHEAP entry price, well thats what ya get.


if ya want the bullet to take "X" out all day long and go BANG every time with NO FTF or FTE and the ONLY variable being YOU or the WIND, then you pay about 3-5X MORE for that anal accuracy. nobody is in biz to give it away. i dont work for free and i dont think any custom shop does either. i know nelson ford doesnt nor mcmillian nor robar nor arrington to name a few. they bend me over quite often.



everyjuan here spends their money as they wish. some of us are wayyyy overboard including myself when it comes to spoons. but i have bean doing this since my very early 20's, and no spoon is immune from being customized.


i dont buy blue spoons any more PERIOD! unless its a model that never was stainless and then i frown alot about that. i only buy stainless when possible.

thats your 1st smart move because once ya walk outside yer bubble or home its exposed and ya better keep them clean. example being another nelson ford built USGI colt .45 in parkerized format. went on 2 week elk hunt here. snow rain snow rain snow rain snow snow snow snowed IN! trudged across tundra mile after mile with NANOOK of the north and my parkered colt in a fully enclosed BIANCHI shoulder holster. never removed .45 entire trip. when done and finally home...........you guessed it. entire spoon totally surface rusted........ALL OF IT! in hind sight i probably should have pulled it out each night and tenderly wiped it down. but since i only had a coupla things on my mind like killing an elk,taking a crap somewhere warm, and eating a warm meal that didnt say MRE on it, and NOT climbing anymore canyons i didnt bother with it. after that debacle, i sold it and its bean stainless ever since as the beginning of my builds.


see i use mine............ALOT! none are safe queens.


now since so many here know everything about everything on building a "custom" .45, its amazing how none of you "gunsmiths" are advertising your expertise and have hung a shingle out advertising as such.


your mention of gunsmith degrees available online was laughable at best, and thats not where i would want to take any of my spoons ever. but to each its own.


now an interesting thing about "raceguns" and i will use the lowly .22 as an example from our combat wombat monthly shoots. you have "stock class" which is basically out of the box stock and you have "open class". "open" class is any modification, any type of sights, ANY MODIFICATION. any brand of .22 pistol.


now what do YOU THINK is the class that has the MOST FTF and FTE , failure to functions ????


if you guessed "OPEN " class, well i'll be hornswoggled you guessed CORRECT!



and WHY is that? because you have a bunch of so-called "gunsmiths playing mix and match" parts.


so in ending before the crap hits the fan again here, if ya want $1000 accuracy ya pay a $1000. if ya want reliability/accuracy well yer gonna have to pay some serious dollars(which most here dont wanna do) and step up the ladder to a knowledgeable/intelligent/competent GUNSMITH with a NON ONLINE DEGREE and something of a TRACK RECORD!



ACCURACY SPEAKS! and ya have to PAY FOR IT! and when ya have worked to tolerances of 78 MILLIONTHS yep 78 MILLIONTHS, ya kind of know whats entailed to make all those different mfgs "mix and match" parts work in unison, each and everytime.

SA sent me a call tag, but I'm still not happy. I'll deal with it. I suggested that I run some ammo through it to check it and they agreed. I ran 50 ball and 50 hollow points through it and had one partially stove pipe. One out of 100 is probably nothing to be concerned with since it was toward the end of the 100 rounds and I was rapid firing. I was trying to see if I could cause a failure.

The pistol is more accurate than I am. The lighting is piss poor at this range, but at 50 feet from rest I was able to put a round in the bulls eye when I tried extra hard. I didn't bother to adjust the sights. I was more concerned with running ammo through it to test it.

Anyhow, issues I have with the pistol: unevenly machined dust cover, spalling on the frame (2-4 mm flake under the right thumb safety, poor slide to frame fitment (the rear of the slide is 2-3 mm forward of the rear of the frame), the magwell isn't perfectly flush with the frame on one side and may be causing one of the factory to hangup (won't drop), minor flaws on the polished finish.

On this model, they coat the frame and slide, then run them through a planer/polisher. So it takes some material off the flat surfaces. The process probably takes more off one side than the other. It also leaves very shape edges.

Some of these things may be overlooked by some, but I can't stand it. If I wanted a GI or MILSPEC model I would have paid for one of them. I'll send this thing back to Geneseo as many times as I have too. I'll drive the two hours to Geneseo if I have to. We'll see how good SA customer service is.

It's a shame that a grand can't buy a better pistol and one has to go to a custom shop and spend 2-3 times as much. One factor in my decision to learn in building. I don't think I'll build a better mouse trap, but I'll have fun learning new skills. In the process I'm sure I'll develop a better appreciation for the great smiths, and laugh at the ones with an online smith degree ;)

A grand will buy absolute handgun perfection, and in many cases return you some change.

You just have to spend it on one of these:

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...P7PSPNill2.jpg

"...if one is going to carry an underpowered pistol (9mm), he should carry the neatest and handiest one available, and that is the Heckler & Koch P7."
- Col. Jeff Cooper

That's really the only NON 1911 I yearn for.

As long as we're straying off topic:

With my SA issues I started looking at my CZ75B and comparing the things I like about it to the SA Loaded. I really like the feel of the CZ and for a $500 pistol it is extremely well built, better than the Springer!!!! The only flaw I can call out is the machining marks on the frame and slide, but all this is not visible unless it is striped and the action isn't affected by it. There are some minor assembly marks but I can't beetch about it on a $500 pistol.

The frame and slide fit is excellent, and after I cleaned and smoothed the contacts the CZ slides like it's on ball bearings. This thing is snug and freakishly accurate for someone like me who hasn't a nick name like "The Great One." :)

So I started thinking that I should have gotten a CZ97B, or two of them instead of the "Friday afternoon assembled" Springfield.


Anyhow, here's a NIB 1982 P7 for you guys <$1000.....I do like the design of the P7 system.

WTS: NIB HK P7 PSP unfired (1983) - AR15.COM

I can't wait till Tim Hancock gets done the custom Fastfire mount for mine. :D

ya know joe and rick,myself and the others here are blessed to be in the VORTEX of gun mfg. here in lil ol hick airy-zoney. nothing and nowhere like it. tons of big name weapons parts here mfg'd by vendors and then shipped off to "big name" and finally assembled. i will not be surprised if ruger moves its entire east coast operations here to prescott due to right to work state blah blah, cheap labor.


soukus, look at the top "100 gunsmiths" list. this is a highly coveted list that you really have to earn your stripes before getting on it. im blessed that nelson ford/robar/mcmillian/arrington are all within about 15 minutes of mi casa. i can drop in any time and ***** about some anal problem i have.


my point being find somejuan close to your pad to start a relationship with. everyone has his limits and his favorites that they will and will not work on. for example i would take any 1911 design to nelson, i would take any smith und vesson,any marlin any winchester lever,m-1 carbine,M1A. but nelsons (2) focus is on smiths wheel guns and 1911's and lever actions. arringtons focus is m-1 carbines and M1A's,robar does everything as well as mcmillian.


ya know each to his own on these. but the 1st and foremost thang on any pistol is FIT! does it FIT yer hand? after that well the gloves are off as far as flavors. nelson ford likes to start with "colt" 1911's instead of others. why? his preference only. he feels there better built. has it bean proven to me? no. does a colt shoot better than a springfield or kimber or ed brown? remains to be seen. i have owned a number of both and cant tell any real difference. i like springfields. kind of like ice cream, you like vanillia i like chocolate.


but the fact of the matter is you will never get the accuracy of a FIXED BARREL out of the 1911 design. so if ya want dead nuts accuracy, well thats why theres a gazzillion 1911 parts available. if you notice in all the gun parts books, there are NO HK P9S parts available except from HK, why? because nojuan has come up with anything to make it MORE ACCURATE! its a FIXED BARREL and you cannot improve on it any more, and the groupings will prove it be it myself shooting or anyjuan else.



so next time yer poking around a spoon store, pick up a P9S in either 9mm or .45. combat or target and see if it fits. its a night and day difference btwn 1911's. i like them both and would buy all of them if my soon to be wifey didnt have me on 20 other goofy tangents where to point money. my P9S .45 is a combat. targets have high sights and snag easily. but if yer gonna suppress it i would buy the target exactly for the reason of tall front sights to see over can.


i can promise you with a P9S 9mm or .45.................you will give any and ALL 1911 owners no matter how UBER "racey" spacegun-ish" they are, absolute FITS! and ya just cant beat "FIXED BARREL" accuracy.

soukus once ya get yer springfield back, look up BAR-STO barrels. some are drop in and some are NOT DROP IN. either way about the best of the BEST as far as barrels. but as with all of them whomever the mfg.............FITTING WILL BE REQUIRED! the drop ins seem to always end up with some clearance issues despite the name "drop-in".


your objective and mission............dance either beer cans or gallon milk jugs at 50yds all day with no FTF nor FTE with FMJ and JHP and then ya got a shooter.

Thanks UNO. I wish there was a place I could go out to to make water jugs dance :(. Around here we don't have a lot of choices. But I'll be excercising the spoon plenty :)

liberally lubricate new spoon or new build and i mean liberally. i use MIL-COMM here because it DOESNT ATTRACT DUST and im in a dust vortex. when new all surfaces will grind against each other and seek their "happy" spot. you will see wear marks, you will see scuffs.

using TOO MUCH clovers or other abrasive is not good as you may wear too much. and metal has a memory and ya cant put back what cha take off very often.


once you break it in and each is different then spring for NP3. teflon impregnation of all metal parts. the complete gun is disassembled and treated at ROBAR. then if ya like, you can add yer flavorite flavor of finish if deemed so.


then as per ROBAR blast 200rds for break in to allow all metal surfaces juance agin find their "happy" place. check out their "thunder ranch" offerings. wayyyy insane.


and heres the best part about NP3 and ROBARs coating offerings. they are mil spec. and the actions will NEVER FREEZE NO MATTER HOW COLD or if in the arctic/antarctic ie. salt exposures nor will they ever rust. coatings GURRANN-TEED FER LIFE!



cleaning them is kinders play after NP3 with only a hoppes bore snake and a rag. total time cleaning gun unless yer OCD and decide to disassemble each time. 1 measly minute.


im TOO DAMN OLD and OWN TOO DAMN MANY to DEEEK around with them anymore. if they dont dance cans and milk jugs and cant be made to do so........i sell them. and believe as the sun comes up in the east everyday.............i have spent a ton of bucks on some that just never did want to shoot accurate. yes some are LEMONS!


i usually do 3-4 builds a year on various spoons. my next is my springfield custom mcmillian usmc stocked hart stainless barrel arrington accurized M1-A.


i have gathered all the goodie parts from sadlak(uber cool) and various other mfg's. as if this spoon needs anything else..........i'd admit im splitting hairs here, but accuracy does speak for it self. all im doing is adding all the sadlak parts,chrome silicone springs and getting the entire action NP'3d at ROBAR.


the reason why im such a proponent of NP3 is on one hunt south of pagosa springs colorado north of chromo colorado, we got nailed by a hell of a snow storm. i was by myself and met 4 other guys there camped in general area. pulled in 3 days before hunt and it just started nailing us. i was wayyy over prepared as usual so nothing to worry about except possibly having to walk out if truck was snowed in. these guys i met had hunted there before and strongly suggested i split up on this mesa like area instead of down in this valley because the road was gonna turn into a nightmare.


anyway as it snowed sleeted rain snowed, everyjuan/everythang got wet. rifles/pistols etc. i was using my mcmillian M40-A1. all NP3'd from robar. the other 4 guys had yer usual smattering of winchesters and remingtons. all veapons left outside tents or campers at night covered so as to not screw up optics, but nonethe less exposed all day to moisture. after 1st night in sub freezing temps following morning we all have snow accumalating on our shoulders and heads and rifle actions...............everyjuans action FROOZZED SOLID(froze) but mine. all i did was wipe snow/mud off of action and just lak butter racked a shell in ready to hunt. the other (4) guys fought with their actions for quite some time until they could clear them. ie. total disassembly wd-40 or whatever lube they had even one guy pouring hot coffee over action to loosen it.


now if ya dig deep on robars site, you'll see our homeboy "homey" heros (rob leatham)comments on how he uses ROBAR on all of his builds. and if ANYJUAN on the planet can get custom 1911's built...........its robbie and his wife. when yer robbie and shooting 80-90K yep 80-90THOUSAND rounds a year...........well i cant think of a better recommendation for a product and service.


you may say how often does it freeze in arizona, well last weeks snowstorm up north was the 3rd largest snowfall in az. history. the peaks just north of me(the bradshaws) have snow on them now.


the stuff werks.

Bar Sto does make an excellent product, but honestly, for the extra $100, it's not significantly better enough than a Clark, Les Bauer or Wilson barrel to justify the expense unless you're trying to win matches.

That's my opinion.

I had an integral feed ramp Les Bauer installed in my Springfield Champion. WHAT A DIFFERENCE it made! :)

Update on the Springfield "built on a sunny Friday at 4:30 pm" Loaded:

Megan from the factory called and said they agreed with the list of issues I found with the pistol. The frame is going to be replaced with that of a Trophy Match frame, finished to match my black stainless slide. The difference is the new frame will have front checkering whereas the old frame did not.

I sent a letter with a list of things I don't think should have passed QC, and it appears SA will correct all those things, at least to a "factory built" standard (as opposed to a Custom Shop standard).

It'll probably be two weeks min before I see it, but I hope it they won't disappoint.

Good to hear it SA is taking care of you. It's a shame you got one in this condition to start with but at least they're standing behind their product.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1265415161.jpg


:D

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...astfireIII.jpg
I love this spoon

I know in the back of my mind that it shouldn't make much difference, but with the P7 slide being so low, that optic makes it look incredibly unbalanced. Have the handling characteristics changed any?

No, feels great. It's very light.