Sights for my AR15 (need recommendations)
 

Folks,

I have a Colt Sporter II AR15 in .223/5.56mm (20" barrel with 1:7" twist) that is completely stock and I use it for target practice at local ranges (100yd or less). I have the carrying handle and no optics, just iron sights. I'm looking for some optics to help me in my quest for a better group and I'm considering the Eotech 512 (f rev.). I like it on my friend's S&W M&P 552 and I think it's what I want and it meets my price point (<$500) and it's fairly compact and produces the desired effect for me. I reload my own ammo for the rifle.

When I was in the military and used the M16, the only guys who had scopes/optics were the snipers, so I'm not familiar at all with them. I don't care for the high magnification scopes I've tried and I really prefer the holographic sights. any recommendations or "gotchas" from you experienced people? Thanks in advance!

While I am happy for now with my removable carry handle iron sights on my Rock River flat top AR, I have often considered buying one of the $100 Aimpoint red dot clones (I believe they were called Tacpoints). Search tacpoint and you will find them for sale and will find heated discussions about them. Purists do not like them and ridicule folks who use them, but it sounds like they work just fine for typical civilian use.

I'm between an Eotech with a flip-up backup sight and one of these for my RRA AR-15 (no rear sights whatsoever):

Trijicon Tri-Powers, and Reflexes at Impact Guns Home

Check this out... Still havent picked on yet....

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/494030-ar-15-guys-what-optics-you-using.html

Souk turned me on to PrimaryArms.com I saw a few of these and the quality seems reasonable for the price. I love the selectable reticle. Honestly I'll eventually end up with an Eotech or Aimpoint, but I cannot decide which reticle I like. So.... I'll fool with the PA version untill I decide which reticle I like, then go with the full-monty later.

I really wonder if the Eotechs and Aimpoints are worth the price for mostly range duty. Seems to me the knock-offs, even the SIG red dot, could be just as good if you're just shooting from a bench at the range. I have to decide what I'm going to put my next build, as the parts will be here soon. Having had my Millett ZoomDot battery take a dump on me at the range a while back, I've lost some faith in relying on battery-powered optics.

I have seen too many cheap red dots give up during three gun matches. I vote for either a good Leupold, Nikon, etc. variable because they are simple, or a good quality red dot like Eotech or Aimpoint. Both are proven in battle. Ultimately our guns are last ditch tools for defense. They better be reliable.

My $0.02.
Troy

Don't get me wrong. If I were military deployed and my life depended on it, I'd buy an Aimpoint or Eotech without hesitation. Heck, I still intend to get one, but the PA version is reliable enough according to reports, and it will help me solve the dot vs. 65 moa circle decision. :)

if someone wants itty bitty sniper-like groups, a red-dot isnt gonna get it done (at longer ranges). for super fast target aquisition, yup. i hear some of the new truglo sights are very nice. less money than an aimpoint.

i was watching a gun show. .223 is a great home defense round. the bullets fragment into tiny relatively harmless pieces after going thru a single sheetrock wall. 9mm and .45 went straight thru 3 walls.

Be prepared to get totally ripped off if you want something that the US Military uses. AIMPOINT, EOTECH, TRIJICON have all inflated their prices beyond the moon in the last few years since the 'tactical craze' has hit.

I remember when a top of the line aimpoint sight was $200. Now they're over $600.....

Crazy.

I just got a walther red dot sight for my AR last month. Nothing fancy, but it does hold a zero....it was under a hundred bucks.

Correct on the first count. Get a small 1 MOA reticle if you want to shoot precisely at range(my red dot has a 5moa dot, it's really for short range under 100 meters shooting. At close range i use my green pressure-activated laser sight.

On the second count there are a few very detailed threads on 5.56mm stopping power. Your observation is correct for SOME types of 5.56mm, and not correct for others.

If you want to use GI type ammo for self defense they go from best to worst in the following order:

1) 77gr mk262 mod1 (civvie equivelant sold by Double Tap)

2) 55gr XM193 (Federal, Winchester, Lake city)

3) 62gr M855 "Green tip" (various manufacturers)

The Mk262 Mod1 ammo will fragment at velocities as low as 2100fps, so it is ideal for shorter barreled weapons.

Many types of FMJ ammo DO NOT fragment, and will not fragment at any realistic velocity. Stick with the three listings above. The Mk262 will outperform any hollowpoint on the market (Technically the Mk262 is OTM, but it fragments, it does not expand), and so will the XM193. The M855 is not quite so destructive, but it will penetrate hard barriers far better than any hollowpoint will.

Total waste of money in my opinion. You're paying a 50% or more markup for a name alone on any of those name brands.

In all honesty a set of $75.00 trijicon night sights is all that you'll ever need, but i do see the appeal of the swiss army rifle gadgetry. I have a green laser, trijicon night sights, and a walther red dot on my AR too. :)

The millet's are nice, but they're chinese made, and some of them just stop working.

I got a walther, also an economy sight that seems to work quite nicely, and holds a zero well, but who knows if it will just stop working some day. This is why i have trijicon night sights on mine. They work great for 10-15 years, guaranteed.

I don't even know why i put the red dot sight on mine, basically for "the look" i guess. At close range under 25m i'll use my green laser. Over 25m, i'm using the iron sights. The red dot is really just decoration....

You're probably right. I am concerned about durability, however if the one I have proves durable (and I WILL test it to be sure) then I might just stick with it. I learned with iron sites, love 'em, won't live without 'em. However I'm also a gadget-hound so I want to give these a try. :)

For $200 you can get a VX-1 Leupold that will be a great scope. I have one and I have no complaints. For $400 you can get an Eotech 512. Since Art was looking for something to use at 100 yds, a 1 MOA dot will be OK. Beyond that, the 1 MOA dot isn't precise enough for me, but maybe fine for others. I just don't like cheap stuff. It has always paid for me to go for the best quality I can afford.
Troy

1 MOA is really as small as any of these red dots get. Most of them are 4 or 5 MOA. As for Leopold, i am in total agreement. I have had nothing but fantastic experiences with all their stuff.

Honestly, for the way I use my AR, the iron sights work just fine. Always shot extremely well with them. I got a high-tech sight pretty much for the "coolness" factor.

Thanks for all of the good info guys!

The PA 2 MOA multi-reticle is $99, add $10 for a high or cant mount. Sure there's a markup, but it's hardly the kinda markup you see with some other brands. It is pretty robust for $99.

The last time I was at the range the kids came along and they have their own preference of reticle so it was nice to let them play with it. We probably put 300 rounds down range and I didn't notice any I'll effects. I've probaby used it for 500 rounds so far.

The Chinese red dots are better than they use to be. I never had one of the bad ones but the PA unit is definitely worth the money I paid for it. I acutally bought a second one.

I would love an Aimpoint also, but as much as I want one for the 'coolness' factor, the reality is, I would never use it to its potential and a cheap one would be just as good. I found several Walthers for @ $45-65.00 online and I could buy a lot of ammo for the $400.00 I would save.
But the question is, which model??