Recommendations fir Accurate First Firearms

NY65912 · 12-02-2009, 04:02 AM

I know this has been discussed many time but....things do change over time.

As a result of health I will not be able to do the track thing any longer.

So my son and I were contemplating a new and challenging sport to do together.

I have done some target shooting in the past back in the day (hunting with my uncle) and now want to persue target shooting (both pistol and reifle as well as skeet.

Now living in NYC they're not too keen on giving permits for firearms, which of course is BS and a violation of my rights.

I do have an agency that is very well known and very reputable providing the expediting of the permits. We see no problems in getting the permits, clean record and business owner for 32 years, stable individual.

Having said the above it's time to think of a good first firearm for us. I was thinking a Kimber 1911 .45ACP which one can switch out to a .22 for more economical practice shooting.

For a rifle I was looking at a Savage 10FP-LE2 .308 as a buddy of mine has one and I have shot it, very nice, at least to me.

Again, I'm looking for quality and accurate pieces.

Thoughts and opinions welcome. Thanks

MotoSook · 12-02-2009, 04:33 AM

Hi Mike. Sorry to hear about the health issue. I know how much you and your son really got into 911s.

Anyhow, from my research. I narrowed down to a Kimber or Springfield (top models). I got to compare a Kimber 1911 to a SA 1911 the other day, and the SA actually felt every bit as refined as the Kimber minus $200. I don't think you can go wrong with a Kimber, but for the same performance I'm getting a SA Loaded. The SA TRP is also highly recommended. I didn't like the checkering on the front strap and the grip was so rough it almost digs into your skin. So I don't see the point in buying up for features I would have to "deal" with.

The rifle, did you see Bill Douglas' thread about his new Sako? A very nice rifle. I recently bought a Remington 700 .308 and it is probably not the best quality (not so great machining and finishing) but it's accurate. See my "$500 bolt axiom thread". A lot of guys chimed in on that one with good comments. I probably won't buy a another Remmy now that I've seen how crappy the production practices is at Remmington.

Probably nothing wrong with the Savage you're considering.

You'll probably not stop at one rifle so for the cost of the Savage you probably shouldn't fret.

masraum · 12-02-2009, 05:58 AM

I've heard (no personal experience) that the Kimber QA is not what it once was, but when you get a good one, they are really good.

So, yeah, a good 1911 variant.

Another great option is a Browning High Power. Great guns, both classics, both designed by J Browning.

You may also want to consider a Glock (lots of great models, kind of the timex of the gun world), Sig (probably more like e Seiko), or the Springfield XD/XDMs (Glock competitors and great guns, similar in that they just always fire [I've got an XDM 9mm]). I've also heard really good things about the S&W M&P series, but haven't fired one.

Rot 911 · 12-02-2009, 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soukus

The SA TRP is also highly recommended. I didn't like the checkering on the front strap and the grip was so rough it almost digs into your skin. So I don't see the point in buying up for features I would have to "deal" with.

Souk, I have the TRP and was concerned about the front strap checkering. I have now put over 1000 rounds through it and have never noticed any problems. Guess SA knew what they were doing! It is very accurate. Can shoot out the "X" at 10 yards. But it is a bit finicky on what ammo it likes to shoot.

vash · vash's Garage

bummer about the health issue. sorry.

how do i ask this? is cost an issue? no doubt, if i had the coin..i would have a custom rifle built! no doubt, there are some fantastic rifles that shoot great from the factory..but boyhowdy! a custom .308, built on a solid action behind a high dollar custom barrel. you would drive tacks.

pistols? i dont know that much about them...but there are custom shops too.

NY65912 · 06:51 AM

Souk, I'm still using a set of Fuchs you sold me a long while ago as rollers for my widebody project, until my Alton Fuchs arrive. I want the versatility of being able to shoot .22 with the 1911. Are there good changeover kits for the SA 1911?

$$ not so much an issue.

I want an accurate, well made firearm that will last well into the future.

I'll probably sell the track beast after I finish completeing the project, I want to see it go to someone as finished as possible.

HardDrive · 06:57 AM

I think the Kimber Custom II is one of the most accurate pistols I have ever shot. Good choice.

MotoSook · 07:11 AM

Mike,

I have not used them, but GAP is well thought of and I doesn't appear they inflat their prices like some shops. You may want to call them to discuss the rifle.

Home - GA Precision

I have a .22 conversion on one of my pistols, and it's fun to shoot but I probably should have just bought a .22 pistol. I shot Legion's Ruger .22 and really liked it. So I'm looking for a Mark II for the kids and I to go plinking with.

Kurt, I may give the TRP another groping and see if it grows on me, but I don't think I'd be giving up much to go with a Loaded Target in accuracy, yes? I really like the black stainless model.

masraum · 12-02-2009, 07:13 AM

I think that a lot of the 22 conversion kits will fit most 1911s (since most of the parts should interchange though less so as you get into the more custom jobs).

There are also 22 conversion kits for other types of guns out there.

BlueSkyJaunte · 12-02-2009, 07:59 AM

I owned a Kimber Custom II for about a year. It never ran right despite repeated calls to Kimber, them sending replacement parts, following break-in procedures, etc. I finally managed to trade it away (to a dealer, heh-heh) and got something else. Over the past 5-6 years Kimber has established a reputation for poor QA and worse customer service. I would strongly recommend doing some research at sites like 1911forums.com and m1911.org.

I have a Kimber .22 conversion that would fail repeatedly on my Kimber frame but runs flawlessly on other brands. The .22 conversion is a good way to get practice in on the cheap.

The Springfield Armory TRP I own is a very, very nice pistol. I lucked out and picked it up used after a factory refinish, and it is one that was assembled in the USA (most if not all are made completely in Brazil now, at the very reputable Imbel plant, if I recall correctly).

Dan Wesson also makes truly excellent pistols and they are made in the USA (Norwich, New York, as a matter of fact) if that's a requirement for you.

Colt seems to have worked the bugs out of their recent missteps since they changed over to CNC production in 2008. I have a TALO Colt that is ridiculously accurate and easy to shoot.

Both SA and DW have much, much better reputations for customer service than Kimber does. It's sad--Kimber used to be one of the shining stars of the 1911 world.

emcon5 · emcon5's Garage

Not sure if this is an option in NYC, but given the choice I would much rather have a proper 22 pistol than a conversion kit for my 1911. Which is exactly what I did, with a Ruger MK1 target.

On Edit:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soukus

I recently bought a Remington 700 .308 and it is probably not the best quality (not so great machining and finishing) but it's accurate. See my "$500 bolt axiom thread". A lot of guys chimed in on that one with good comments. I probably won't buy a another Remmy now that I've seen how crappy the production practices is at Remmington.

From the sounds of things, if you want a Remington, get an older one. I picked up a Wal-Mart 700 ADL in 2000, and the fit and finish were still pretty good, even though it was a bare-bones entry level rifle.

Speaking of which, if anyone needs a unfired 30-06 Rem 700 barrel, let me know. I just bought the rifle to get the action for a custom project.

Joeaksa · 12-02-2009, 08:55 AM

Good call on the Kimber 1911. Slide in the .22 conversion (believe its made by Ceiner?) and fire away all day for pennies.

Bill Douglas · 12-02-2009, 09:53 AM

Another 1911 to consider is a Colt Gold Cup, I'm no expert but people I know speak highly of them.

Shoepop · 12-02-2009, 10:00 AM

I'm an FFL dealer and sell all kinds/brands and can recommend the Savage as a best buy for the $ hands down. For a pistol if you get more specific about what you want to do it will help. Kimber is fine but a LOT of others out there. Also helpful if you give a budget range for both.

NY65912 · 12-02-2009, 10:42 AM

Shoepop...I'm looking to refine my skills for accuracy.

I want to hone my skills for my own satisfaction, something about being a marksman has always intrigued me.

I want a reliable and accurate firearm for my son and I to use.

I really don't have a price range. Pistol - */- $1K Rifle +/- $800

pwd72s · 10:55 AM

Accurate first firearms? Target shooting only? Then why go with centerfire cartridges? Rimfire .22 ammo is inexpensive and is quite capable of teaching the basics of marksmanship.

Even this "lowly" caliber can be taken to extremes. There is a group of folks at my gun club who shoot modified Ruger 10-22 rifles. Bull barrels, scopes, stocks, etc. They take great pride in putting up their targets...50 yards...10 shot groups you can cover with a quarter.

So...for rifle? Ruger 10-22
Pistol? Browning...or if you can find one on the used market, a Sig Trailside...both very accurate.

Don't bypass the .22 round. It's akin to buying a sailing dinghy before buying a big cruising boat. The dinghy sailor knows more about the mechanics of sailing than a fat cat who starts off with a 40' Swan. The kid who started out with a .22 single shot rifle is usually a better rifleman than the guy who started off with a scoped .300 Weatherby.

Also...start with iron sights only...resist the scope temptation until you have at least the basics down.

m21sniper · 12-02-2009, 11:01 AM

Any .22 caliber rifle would be ideal to learn on. And for pistols, a .22 handgun of some sort. There are many good ones to choose from.

m21sniper · 12-02-2009, 11:02 AM

Learning to shoot (or trying to) on a .308 win rifle or .45acp pistol is not the way to go.

NY65912 · 12-02-2009, 11:28 AM

I'll agree with the sailing analogy.

I liked the Kimber because of it being able two fire large and small caliber. Learn on the small and some big ones for occasional fun.

As far as a rifle ...I'm fine with a good .22

MotoSook · 12-02-2009, 11:33 AM

Accurate for a new shooter?

I have less than 55 rds with a bolt action rifle and a .308 at that. Here's my best group:

I'd consider myself a virgin shooter and knew as much about precision shooting as I could glean from the web. I would like formal instruction, but I think the fun is learning to do it. It's more challenging for me to learn on my own. YMMV