Three Mile Island & NIMBY
 

I'm doing a paper for class and I'd like some opinions from you people here if possible.

Were you old enough to remember the incident? If so, what do you remember hearing about it (through others, from papers, from the news...)?

Would you live next to a nuclear power plant today? Please give a reason why as succinctly as possible.

Do you think Nuclear power has a future in America? Please back up your answer on this one with a reason.

Can I use any quotes you give me in my paper?

Thanks.

One interesting thing from that time is there was a major Hollywood movie released at the same time: "China Syndrome". That played into people's fears and colored the whole incident.

I would not live next to a nuclear power plant - as they are huge and ugly. But I would live near one and I pretty much do.

Wasn't 'Silkwood" also about nuke power?

I remember that MAD magazine did alot of parodies about the incident at the time--even had a mini-poster on the back cover of one issue with Alfred E. standing in front of 3-mile --the cooling towers had a huge crack and radiation was pouring out--Alfred's hair was on-end and even he was nervous enough that he was uttering "YES, me worry!" instead of his usual flip response.

I remember that Jimmy Carter went into the containment area where a black cleaning lady was mopping up water and they both became giants.

PS. I've been in a nuclear plant. It was one of the cleanest, most over guarded places I've ever been.

Nuclear power has to be in our future, it works and its green, because of proper construction 3 mile island is contained un like Chernoble where faulty construction caused a real bad mess. Reactors are becoming smaller and smaller and I read somewhere that soon they will have reactors the size of freezers that will power apt. buildings, they are too small to melt down. China needs a ton of reactors, they open a coal fired power plant everyday in that country, the bad thing is they have alot of coal. Its time that everybody wakes up and realizes that nuclear power is the only way to go. I'd live near one , no problem, I've worked uranium most of my adult life, doing so now and have worked on the richest site ever found. Its so rich that they can't mine it, never had a problem. The enviormentalists won't let big dam projects pass legislation because of the land that gets covered and the fact that some rat will lose his home, wind power is expensive to set up and maintain and I think its an eyesore, wave power??? I doubt it , research other places like France, they get 75% of their power from nuclear reactors and have for 25 years, they and lots of other countries have had trouble free power for just as long, the public is just afraid of what they don't know

Silkwood was a nut job. I know some of the people that were portrayed in the movie. The movie was about as accurate to what happened as most movies. About 99% in the movie was made up stuff that just did not happen.

No. I was 1.

I currently live within the "blast range" of one should it go into full meltdown. I am not in the least concerned.

No. Obama is intentionally choking the industry by shutting down Yucca Mountain. Any currently active nuclear facilities will be forced to shut down when their waste storage capacity is exceeded. Add to that that any new construction brings a score of lawsuits from Greenpeace, ELF, and other groups. These lawsuits are not designed to be "won", but to make it so costly and time-consuming that companies give up before completing a reactor. Unless a law is passed to limit such lawsuites, constructing any new nuclear facilities is effectively impossible.

PM me with the quote you would like to use and how it will be cited, and we can discuss.

I lived in Hershey at the time and when I looked out of my living room window you could see the cooling towers at TMI.
When the public found out it was total panic. My wife was teaching at the time and people where going to schools crying and grabbing their kids and running out , teachers had to stay around until all the students where picked up. They had a difficult time trying to locate parents ,remember that having a cell phone at the time was not the norm.
Fliers where distributed that explained all the evacuation routes and procedures if this would become necessary. By doing this they got as many people as possible to leave on their own before an official order of evacuation. The official order was never given but I can say that it was very very close and at the very last minute it was put on hold.
A few friends owned planes at the time and arrangement where made to fly out those of us who where staying to help with the evacuation.
You had to decide what you wanted to take with you because if the worst happened all things left behind would be lost.
There was a run on the banks for cash , again this was before mass use of debit or ATM cards.
A lot of people went to the eastern shore points to get away only to later realize that the prevailing winds would carry the radioactive clouds to them.
The news reports that I was hearing from people out of the area sounded worse than what we where being told locally at the time.
Some people today feel that there has been a cover up regarding medical issues.
There is still a active citizen based TMI watch group in the area.

Do you have any links or anything to confirm this? This is something I haven't come across. I've seen the stories of the increased doctor visits, the increased psychiatry visits, businesses claiming that they used "pennsylvania-free milk", increased claims of rashes, nausea, etc and the studies that went along with those, but nothing about banks. It'd be neat to have that included in the paper somewhere.

also, regarding the news reports..this is THE point of the paper I'm writing -- that the reports were contradictory, incorrect, and that the lack of nuclear disaster preparation by the governments (federal and state) led to a panic that was greater than it should have been, and why 145,000 people evacuated even though only 12,000 were in the evacuation zone. I've come across newspaper reports, and pamphlets, and such. Very few first-hand reports though.

I'll have to contact my parents. They lived in Scranton at the time. I don't know anyone who lived near Harrisburg though.

The last half of the paper is regarding the attitude TODAY of the people towards nuclear power. S_Morrison said it best:
. There's FAR more danger from pollution from coal plants than nuclear plants, yet because of the invisibility of the dangers (long-term exposures, the inability to assess the direct immediate threat to their own lives), people fear the nuclear plants more. There's also a link to the atomic bombs on japan, that somehow the two technologies are related. It's the public's ignorance that needs to change. Economically, plants are far more expensive to maintain, staff, and protect (and clean up if there's an accident) than any other type of plant.

I don't want to get into the politics of it and have this end up in PARF where nothing good will come out of it. My question was not about the short-term place of nuclear plants in America, but the long term. Obama has virtually nothing to do with that. It's the attitudes of the public that will either accept or deny them in their backyards.

I have been working in nuclear power for just shy of 30 years my specialty is Radiation Protection, I remember TMI and the issues it caused and had to deal with some of those knee jerk reactions to what happened. My advise to you is do your research on this subject, nuclear power is one of the safest forms of power we have that takes up the least amount of room (have you seen one of those wind turbines self destruct?). The China syndrome while entertaining was totally bull and very little fact actually none. Silkwood was fact based and I worked with one of the techs that went to her house to survey it and he actually said there is some fact in the movie but it is a movie and has to be dramatic. I am getting ready to go to the plant that Legion is talking about and no slam to him but his terminology "blast zone" is typical of the lack of proper education the public has on nuclear power there is no blast zone as all the reactor systems are tucked away in very secure buildings that have been tested to ensure they can contain any casualty that could happen the most likely being the problem Cherynobl had as a steam explosion which is caused from water in the core being superheated rapidly and flashes to steam with great force I was currently in Hawaii when that happened and my sampling detected activity from that accident. Nuclear power has a place in our future and currently 30 new licenses are approved for construction but are all on hold because of the unfriendly administration in power right now. Almost all the plants running right now have gotten license extentions and will be in operation for at least 20 more years and some 40 more. It is also a misnomer about the Yucca mountain thing currently most plants are engaged in dry cast storage onsite and will open up new slots in the spent fuel pool for continued operation. This a safe solution until Obama gets out of office and a nuclear friendly administration gets in. Hope this helps and feel free to ask questions I will try to answer so long as it doesn't violate security.

I remember watching the coverage on TV. Of course there wasn't much to show. Concrete buildings. And from the public's standpoint, that was pretty accurate. There really wasn't much to get excited about. It was a non-issue from a public safety standpoint.

As was mentioned, nuclear plants aren't the most beautiful things to build neighborhoods around, but would I live next to one from a safety standpoint? Absolutely. I worked (as an engineer) at a commercial nuclear plant in the mid-to-late '80s. Once you understand the multiple, redundant safety systems that actually are in place, you chuckle at shows like "The China Syndrome" where critical safety systems (like HPCI) are "tagged out for maintenance" during plant operation. Three Mile Island in reality is an excellent example of these safety systems. The plant kept trying to shut itself down and the operators had to over-ride safety systems to cause the eventual partial melting of the core. Had they all simply gone home at the first sign of something wrong, everything would have been fine.

Take a standard 1000 MWe power plant. If it's nuclear, it requires about 1 ton of fuel to operate for one year. If it's coal-fired, it requires eighty-nine 100-ton coal cars a day to operate.

I've got to move something this week reading about 200 R/hr contact - can I get some coverage? SmileWavy

Piece of cake have you had your ALARA plan and HLA approved? Oh wait a minute Knoxville? DOE or TVA? Cant help if DOE you guys don't use those things. LOL

Well, it would pretty much take an external nuclear explosion to breach the containment building, right? ;)

From what I've read here and in newspaper archives, those who have experience with the technology (either first hand or through education) are perfectly happy living near the plants, knowing their dangers. Those who don't have the knowledge are a little more fearful.

It would take more than a hiroshima size bomb to breach containment. and you are ouside of the kill radius for a small warhead (backpack bomb) I live 30 miles from a prime target (Whiteman AFB) and have done my homework on whether me and my family would suvive an attack it would have to be large.

Give me nuclear power, now. I live within 20 miles of one (Calvert Cliffs)...never give it a second thought.

But my Dad was a nuke...I don't fear because I know. Look up Idaho Falls in the 50's. My Dad got a Bronze Star for going in after the guys...not his first, not his last;)

sl-1?

Do you have any links or anything to confirm this? This is something I haven't come across. I've seen the stories of the increased doctor visits, the increased psychiatry visits, businesses claiming that they used "Pennsylvania-free milk", increased claims of rashes, nausea, etc and the studies that went along with those, but nothing about banks. It'd be neat to have that included in the paper somewhere.

As I remember it the local banks asked that you voluntarily limit your cash withdrawal to $200.00. Myself , family and friends felt that was not near enough and we all withdrew what WE felt was necessary.
You could check the WGAL TV 8 archives on line or email them. I suspect that they have a lot of information about TMI.
I still live in the area and I do not worry about TMI like some folks do.
Met ED after the accident was crying poor to the PUC ...we need a rate increase etc. At the same time they build a million dollar public relations center in Middletown. They had approximately 47 company vehicles sitting at one dealership and approximately 18 four wheel drive trucks and SUV sitting at another dealership waiting to be picked up. Yet they where crying poor to the PUC.
The local activist group said at the time the bulk of electricity generated by TMI went to New Jersey yet we in Pa that had MET ED electric got the rate increase to pay for the clean up of TMI.

I've worked in a nuke plant, both in the restricted zone and in containment (San Onofre nuclear generating station)..

One of the safest places I've ever been. I would not have a problem living near a nuke plant at all. If I ever get tired of working where I work now, I might look into going to work there again. They are safe.

This country would be much better off if we built more nuke plants, but it won't happen because the average person is an idiot and is easily brainwashed to fear something he doesn't have a clue about.
The tree-huggers convinced all the weak minded that nuke plants are dangerous and should be feared. I bet none of them even knew how one works.
Not a stinking clue, just a knee-jerk excuse for activism, an excuse to protest and be different just like everyone else.
As far as Jane Fonda goes, she sucks so much she even hates herself.

You can use any part fo this if you want.

Confirm what? Most of what you are telling there are politicians and greedy executives seeing an opportunity to grab some clout and money playing on the public fear of the time.

Yup...I go the date wrong. He was an Army Nuke instructing in Idaho Falls.

I think I have some pics of the ceremony.

I remember TMI, and as mentioned the movies of the time helped to scare a lot of people. TMI, IMO, was a non-incident. It was a failure of people, not of the system.

My father retired from a nuke plant, and throughout my youth we lived 11 miles away from the plant. I never feared the plant or the technology. And even with the waste disposal problems, I believe it is the best power source we have at this time.

Many people (perhaps most?) are poorly educated on nuclear energy. They live in fear of a Hiroshima style nuclear explosion, or a Chernobyl accident. They don't understand that there are differing technologies, and that some plants are safer than others. Many don't know the difference between a reactor building and a cooling tower. They see the steam coming out and think that there is radiation in it. Many still think the plants will "blow up". Many don't know why Chernobyl happened, but they "know" that every nuke plant is another Chernobyl waiting to happen. Unfortunately, it's also an emotional issue for many, meaning that no amount of education will ever sway them from their fears. And many want me to add more punctuation to this paragraph so that it reads better.

Are the plants ugly? Perhaps some are. The one in our area looks no different than any other industrial complex.

http://www.duke-energy.com/images/po...ear_oconee.jpg

I did my training out in Idaho at the now decommed NRF used to drive by SL-1 every day just a concrete slab now, man that was a mess. I have heard that Cherynobl's sarcoffagus is nearing collapse and if that happens! :eek:

My Dad was/is an interesting Dude (Speeder and I were talking about him headed up to NY on Saturday).

Thanks for your silent service...you folks are amazing.

Thank you and back at you if it wasn't for you targets making the other folks nervous we could never sneak in there and put one up their ass!

That was a joke! I have the greatest respect for all servicemen and women they are what freedoms all about.

I was a teen at the time and now can only recall the initial hysteria surrounding the initial reports. Like most stories, it took time to seperate facts from fiction.

I wouldn't choose to live by a nuclear facility if the same house was located elswhere and just as nice. But from a safety point of view, it wouldn't bother me. I'd worry allot more about facilities in the developing countries than those in Europe or North America.

Nuclear has to have a future. They really have to get to work on nuclear waste though. With more and more plants coming, it won't get any easier.

All of us who have spent any time with you guys know you have your sense of humor surgically removed when you select subs :)

And we are all targets...every FFG, DDG, or Aegis boat I've ever flown off of was a sponge.

Honestly, I have no idea how you guys do it.

DOE. We have all the plans - JHAs, Lift Plans, RWPs, etc. We don't typically do ALARA plans, though.

We have activation levels on components that would make you weep. ;)

The Pepsi Syndrome, or the Incident at Two Mile Island.

SNL Transcripts: Richard Benjamin: 04/07/79: The Pepsi Syndrome

That was the very first SNL episodes I ever saw. I think I saw the Bassomatic "Comercial" the same night. It's still one of best episodes and skits I've ever seen.

Reporter #1: Is it true that the president is a hundred feet tall?

Ross Denton: That's nonsense! Of course not!

Reporter #2: Is it true that he's ninety feet tall?

Ross Denton: No comment


I grew up just down the road from one of the first nuke plant built. I think it was built by the feds and turned over to Northern States Power to teach the industry how to use nukes. It was far safer than the coal plant spewing smoke right next to it. Millions of people die every year from complications relating to coal smoke and coal mining. Those deaths are completely preventable with careful use of nukes.

In my opinion, the death knell of the nuclear power industry was the unfortunate convergance of Karen Silkwood's real life lawsuit that included allegations of her being killed in a traffic accident to silence her as a whistle blower, Three Mile Island, and The China Syndrome. All three happened closely enough that the image of nuclear power as unsafe and the industry being dangerously reckless and secret became entrenched in popular culture. The nuclear power plant in The Simpsons is an ode to Three Mile Island and the lingering perception of the nuclear power industry being personified by evildoing tycoons like Montgomery Burns.

Edit: I understand that an alternate theory explaining how the real life Karen Silkwood ended up contaminated with radiation and therefore become a whistle blower with a lawsuit. And that was that she was an anti-nuke activist and stole some radioactive material to create some contamination in order to sabotage the building of the plant. I've heard that no one else was ever contaminated and they could never figure out how she got exposed if she didn't do it on purpose.

I also believe the burning of coal releases far more radioactivity into the environment than nuclear plants ever dreamed of...

That's very possible. I do remember Paul Harvey reporting on the Congressional hearings after TMI and that someone brought a Gieger Counter in to demonstrate. Someone wanted to turn it on to see how it worked. It turned out that the background radiation of the Capitol Building was several times the highest level of radiation that escaped from TMI. The Capitol is made out of granite that has natural radioactivity.

The amount of energy that could be produced at such incredible cost savings and with such little polution is mind boggling. Just Google how many people a year are killed in coal mining accidents. It's incredible. The compare the coal dust and coal smoke deaths and it is even worse.

My friend nothing surprises me I once pulled a smear out from under the S1W prototype reactor vessel that read a couple hundred mr/hr been in fuel transfer canals that had dose rates over 500 rem/hr in places. Thats DOE in my world ALARA is law.

Back in the day our life expectancy in combat was only slightly longer than yours because they had to look long enough to get the nuke close enough to kill us. Just short of 30 mins.

The Simpsons! Good reference.

I was amazed to see that the coal ash ponds are so big. Coal is accepetd because it is easy to understand. It is a rock that burns. Even a child can understand fire.

You get a half a millirem of exposure everytime you smoke a cig. from the heat activating stable carbon into carbon-12 a radioactive isotope. Granite is not radioactive what is the source is all the mortor and any concrete the older it is the worse it is because it has a potash component to it that releases radon gas that alpha decays to lead and bismuth both short half-life isotopes that gamma decay in about 28 min. The only person that knows what happened to Silkwood is Silkwood herself and whoever did it to her I dont think anyone is stupid enough to contaminate themselves with plutonium considering it takes a few micro grams of it to kill you from its heavy metal toxicity. Honestly I was told there was no rhyum or reason to the pattern of contamination in her apartment.

No its not

It might not be a good reference, but it was a deliberate one on the part of the Simpsons creators. Just as the name Bart was deliberately created because it's an anagram of "brat" and the name "Simpsons" is a takeoff on the Andersons of 1950s Primetime fame, they deliberately made Homer a nuclear power plant worker and Montgomery Burns a nuclear plant owner specificaly because of the place TMI and nuclear power in general occupies in our collective psyche. It was the biggest, baddest, scariest big corporation they could come up with. The fact that it resonates so well with our culture demonstrates how deeply ingrained the irrational fear of all things nuclear powered is.