mini 14 versus ar-15

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by turbo6bar

Is the sig 556 worth consideration? Fellow on ar15.com has one for $1150 shipped.

Smoking deal depending on condition and if not first generation.

[turbo6bar]

Brand new, but early production. Think it was early four digit serial. What is Sig's customer service reputation? Read some pretty nasty things on forums.

[Rick Lee]

I've never mailed them a gun, but I run into their regional LEO and miltary sales folks often enough at trade shows, that I'd go through them if I had a real problem. That's still a smoking deal on a new 556. New? Really? The only issue I'm aware of with the early ones was marring of the area behind the ejection port by spent brass. Don't know if they fixed that, but seems kind of a silly thing to have not corrected in early testing.

[turbo6bar]

$1185 shipped.
Sig 556 (NIB) with upgraded magpul stock $1185.00 shipped ~ AR180b with MI qd rail $595.00 shipped - AR15.COM

Damn, I just copied the url to the page, and Pelican automagically copied the title. Wicked.

[MotoSook]

I wouldn't by a Sig. Just get an upper from Bravo Company and buy a lower of you choice then build it. You'll end up upgrading the handguard and grip anyway. Bravo has uppers without foreguard for less than $500. If you don't want to build the lower get a complete on from Spikes. A lower is so easy to build and you don't need any special tools.

I think Spikes has a hammer forged rifle for $950 and their customer service is excellent. Unless you buy a really cheap rifle they will almost be no difference.

I bought my first one at the height of the scare and wish I had just built one to get exactly what I want.

An AR is a very very simple machine. You'll be amazed how simple it is once you strip it the first time.

Check ou Aim Surplus. They have CMMG and Daniel Defense at discounted prices.

I will never buy a complete AR rifle. It's so easy to build one and get exactly what you want for about the same price as a mid priced rifle ... Using premium parts.

[legion]

Originally Posted by Soukus

A lower is so easy to build and you don't need any special tools.

Well, you do need a special tool for fastening the castle nut. And you need some good planning before inserting some of the retaining springs...

[MotoSook]

Ok. I should have said that I had the tools needed, a set of punches (cheap ones from Harbor Freight) a spanner wrench found in my tool box (but a castle nut wrench is $10 for a decent one) and some wood blocks. I have since bought some other tools but could have made them from stuff found at the hardware store. Someone who's worked on a 911 as I know Jurgen has should be able to build a lower in less than 2 hours of careful learning as you go building. I don't stake my castle nuts by the way. No need to if tighten properly.

Also some AR butt stocks come with a buffer tube that do not use a castle nut. The Magpul UBR is one and it's an excellent stock. Solid yet adjustable.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by turbo6bar

Is the sig 556 worth consideration? Fellow on ar15.com has one for $1150 shipped.

My Bushmaster outshot my brothers SIG 556 so badly that he sold it the next day and bought a Colt AR HBAR.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by turbo6bar

The mini 14 is attractive, but it does look like the older mini-14s were junk. Even guys selling older mini's have difficulty mustering good words. While the newer manufacturing has helped the new mini-14s, I've read comments about new owners complaining about poor quality of the stocks, and suspect machining/fit.

The old mini-14s were not junk. I had a circa late 1970s series 178 back in the 80s that was a wonderful weapon. Where they struggle is with longer ranges. But at 100yards and closer, for regular "soldiers needs", they're fine. They are certainly more accurate than any AK i've ever shot. No model of mini-14 has jamming problems that i am aware of. My cousin still has that series 178, and he still loves it to this day.

I also had a series 182, and that one shot 2" groups at 100 meters, which i feel is plenty good enough for any "battle rifle." That being said my AR shoots well under an inch at 100 yards.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by Soukus

I wouldn't by a Sig. Just get an upper from Bravo Company and buy a lower of you choice then build it. You'll end up upgrading the handguard and grip anyway. Bravo has uppers without foreguard for less than $500. If you don't want to build the lower get a complete on from Spikes. A lower is so easy to build and you don't need any special tools.

I think Spikes has a hammer forged rifle for $950 and their customer service is excellent. Unless you buy a really cheap rifle they will almost be no difference.

I bought my first one at the height of the scare and wish I had just built one to get exactly what I want.

An AR is a very very simple machine. You'll be amazed how simple it is once you strip it the first time.

Check ou Aim Surplus. They have CMMG and Daniel Defense at discounted prices.

I will never buy a complete AR rifle. It's so easy to build one and get exactly what you want for about the same price as a mid priced rifle ... Using premium parts.

Seriously, my advice....skip all the building one stuff and just buy a Bushmaster XM-15E2S. I could not be happier with mine. I'm sure some AR snob will say it's "middle of the road," and maybe pricewise it is, but the quality is all there, it's at least as nice as any military M-16 i ever handled, and it is both laser accurate and dead balls reliable.

Bushmaster has been making AR's for decades, i submit that they know how to make a good one, for a good price.

[turbo6bar]

I take it you're not keen on gas piston ARs, then? I like the gas piston design on paper.

Spikes has complete M4s with gas piston conversion for $1099, $400 off regular price.

I am sure there are good mini 14s are out there, but those aren't the ones for sale. Will keep looking.

[m21sniper]

If you like gas piston AR's don't let me stop you, i have never shot one. Their reputation is that they are more reliable, and less accurate. I personally feel the pistoned AR's are just a fad. Time will tell i guess.

[MotoSook]

The piston AR is not any less accurate. The bolt and barrel interaction is still the same. The mechanism that cycles the action is changed. You can take an AR and slap a piston Kit on it and it will be as accurate as it was in DI mode. They stay cleaner longer. That's the benefit of the piston kit or a piston rifle.

The problem is carrier tilt. The supposive fix is an anti-tilt carrier, but this is just a bandaid not a fix for the problem. Some carriers wear into the buffer tube faster and worst than others. I don't think this is brand dependent but a function of tolerances.

Search for Legion's thread on piston kits for the discussion and some links.

I don't think the piston is a terrible thing but I don't think it is necessary. Clean your rifle should be part of the ownership experience and for some of us a Zen moment.

I think there is a link in the piston kit thread that links to an article in which John Noveske is interviewed and his opinion was not favorable to the piston kit. He mentioned a rail as a solution to carrier tilt. I read that after I posed the same design thoughts in the piston kit thread.

Really, the fact that there are so many options for manufacturers and AR configurations speaks to the simplicity of the Stoner design. There are plenty of sources for quality parts and quality complete uppers or lowers. A potential AR owner should ask if he or she will be happy wih a rifle as it left the factory or if there are upgrades in the future. If upgrades are to come, build it or buy a partially built
upper and add a handguard or sights that one wants. Will you want an upgraded butt stick? Will you want a different pistol grip?

[turbo6bar]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

I personally feel the pistoned AR's are just a fad. Time will tell i guess.

One could argue the boom in AR's is a fad. Time will tell, I guess.

I searched the archives for 'ar-15'. Damn, there are a lot of gun nuts here.

Soukfu, I'm not intimidated by building an AR. Thing is I don't know what parts to pick. That kinda defeats the purpose.

[red-beard]

I want to build an AR-10

[Rick Lee]

Pelican is well on its way to becoming a go-to site for gun info. I don't think Wayne realizes that Pelican IS the only site for BMW R1100/1200S bikes. We could soon also be competing with AR15.com.

[MotoSook]

There certainly are a lot of parts to choose from, but they should all function the same unless you go really cheap.

Daniel Defense makes a great carbon steel cut barrel and you can pick one up for $170. Add a Bravo or Spikes bolt carrier group for $140-150, and you have the heart of an accurate and reliable rifle. A heavy buffer is maybe $20+$8 for a spring and lowers are $90 from Spikes. A DPMS or CMMG lower parts kit is
$50. A mil spec buffer tube less than $15. Add a Magpul Acr stock for $90. That'll complete you lower.

It's a buyer's market right now so you can got fo a built rifle o build one to spec and you'll be go to go.

My 15 yr old son is getting a Spikes lower and upper with a DPMS lower parts kit for Christmas. With the takeoffs from my other rifles he'll be building an AR for plinking using the CMMG .22LR kit we have.

[MotoSook]

The thing about gun discussion here is we don't have the childish BS found on other sites.

Pelican is well on its way to becoming a go-to site for gun info. I don't think Wayne realizes that Pelican IS the only site for BMW R1100/1200S bikes. We could soon also be competing with AR15.com.

[Rick Lee]

On our local AZ gun BBS it seems like half the threads get locked within the first day.

[red-beard]

Hmmmm. Maybe we need a gun section