Legal Advice Needed

futuresoptions · 12:55 PM

Pelican trust, I have the following issue... whenever it rains, more than say a couple of inches, my yard floods... I live on a corner lot on a dead end street. I have drainage ditches bordering two sides of my property... The drainage ditch out front is the main ditch that funnels water out of the neighborhood. One of the problems is that I have a church next door and they (church or city) put in a 10-12" pipe in the ditch and covered it to make the church parking lot which is directly connected to the street. This pipe is not large enough to funnel out all of the neighborhoods water so it backs up into my yard.. I purchased this house in 2003 and have complained since then about this issue.. I have been told "you have low property" "we will look into it" "we are putting in for federal funds to resolve the issue". If you remember the pictures that I posted with hurricane Dolly, it will give you a good idea of what I put up with... Right now we have ankle deep water in our yard due to about 3-4 inches of rain over night and it is still raining. I am pi$$ed and feel that I have no recourse than to sue.. But I don't even know if that is the proper solution.. Many neighbors have added truckloads of dirt to elevate their properties to fend off the water which pushes it more my way... My yard is quite a bit larger than the others and I cannot afford to do this at this time nor do I feel that I should have to due to the problem being caused by the drainage situation... I went to city hall today and the city administrator is supposed to get back with me sometime today.. (just like the dog catcher was supposed to bring a possum trap to the house, I eventually just shot the thing....) Well, any ideas would be appreciated... we have been documenting the flooding with pictures over the last year or so...

futuresoptions · 12-16-2009, 11:39 AM

Also, the 10-12" pipe in question runs about 150-200yds before reaching the dead end of the street where the main drainage ditch is... this pipe also retains water and we have mosquitos all year long even in the winter... I have seen several snakes go into that thing when the water level is down (one I stepped on while walking the ditch about 4ft long)... will take pics and post here in a bit...

flatbutt · 12-16-2009, 11:41 AM

Bill, it seems to me that the problem was caused by improvements made to other properties. Were those improvements made with a city issued permit? If not maybe they can be forced to take them out. If they were made under a permit you may need to lawyer up to get the city to remediate the problem. IMHO.

good luck bud.

McLovin · 12-16-2009, 11:42 AM

I was involved in a similar matter many years ago. Just going from memory, in general terms, from what I recall a property owner who alters the natural watercourse is generally liable to downstream owners. It sounds like that is what they have done on the church property with their alterations and insufficient drainage solution. When they make changes to their property, they are responsible to ensure that they don't merely redirect water and flood downstream properties.

I don't think you are prohibited from suing either the church or the city. As I recall, in my area there were rules for suing the city, though. I think you had to first "exhaust administrative remedies," which means you have to make a demand through the proper government channels, have that demand denied, etc. (I think after they finally deny your demand they issue a "Right to Sue" letter or something).

The other thing I recall is that is gets very complicated and very expensive. The church will have insurance to pay for lawyers, and the city basically has an open checkbook to fund their defense, and the facts get complicated, with expensive experts needed, analysis, discovery, etc.

MotoSook · 12-16-2009, 11:42 AM

Your best option right now is to pursue the issue with the city. Ultimately they are responsible for permitting the neighbor's construction and should have not granted a permit without proper consideration for how the construction will effect the ajoining area. The city may even have a soils and sediment department that should regulate this situation

Gogar · 12-16-2009, 11:42 AM

As a layperson, I think you can demand action from whomever put in the culvert that was too small, be it the Church or the City.

I also think whomever told you they were 'looking into federal funds' was just blowing smoke up your ass.

McLovin · 12-16-2009, 11:44 AM

I'd check to see if you have any kind of insurance policy that might cover this situation.

futuresoptions · 12-16-2009, 12:13 PM

Here are a few pics from just a moment ago...

Here's just in front of my front porch...

The water coming in from the ditch..

futuresoptions · 12-16-2009, 12:16 PM

water overflowing from ditch...

Where the ditch and my property line ends and the pipe begins...

futuresoptions · 12:31 PM

Pipe runs the link of this parking lot.. (sorry for bad pics, it is windy and rainy)

more of the water overflowing the ditches... to where my yard won't drain (Note: The ditch is between the road and fire hydrant... standing water is overflow)

futuresoptions · 12-16-2009, 12:24 PM

The ditch on the opposite side of my property, this is what all the ditches look like and they all are trying to funnel into that small pipe at the end of my property....

My neighbors have no standing water on their properties...

RWebb · RWebb's Garage

yes, "a property owner who alters the natural watercourse is generally liable to downstream owners"

the problem is proving it & what it was like beforehand

you are lucky to be in a city, that will make it a lot easier

if that does not work, then you will need to find an attorney who specializes in water law in your area

it is a very insular & specialized area - in the West, cases can drag on for many decades

Good Luck!

futuresoptions · 12-16-2009, 12:28 PM

This is a picture of what my house is sitting on top of... follow the water to the ditch... I have been putting off putting new siding on the house due to this problem.... note the mold growth due to the continued moisture from this issue...

futuresoptions · 12-16-2009, 12:32 PM

In all fairness, this is a small town maybe of 3000 folks, but they collect my taxes without issue, and I just feel that they should remedy this situation...

Superman · 12-16-2009, 12:41 PM

You made the right decision on the possum thing, IMHO.

It seems clear that the undersized pipe is the cause. I wonder how that pipe size got decided. I wonder what the building permit looked like (there is probably a copy at City Hall), and whether a PE was required to sign off on the design. I wonder whether the City approved the design. After gathering as much information as you can, then I think some meetings/discussions are in order. And letter-writing. Once there is a written record, and once the nature of the problem becomes known to the organizations that caused it, they may be willing to discuss a solution that avoids the lawsuit thing. The solution is (probably) going to involve some heavy equipment, materials and labor. The City has that stuff. If they were in a hurry, that pipe could probably be replaced in a couple of days. If they were serious.

Again, it's always good to inform people so they know what's coming and can help shape the solution.

johnco · 12-16-2009, 01:10 PM

small town rules there are probably like small town rules here. in most places, until recently, you could just drop a pipe in the ditch and cover it up. now you have to call the parish/town/city hall, they say okay, you drop a pipe in ditch and cover it up. no permits, town meetings or city engineers involved.

futuresoptions · 12-16-2009, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnco

small town rules there are probably like small town rules here. in most places, until recently, you could just drop a pipe in the ditch and cover it up. now you have to call the parish/town/city hall, they say okay, you drop a pipe in ditch and cover it up. no permits, town meetings or city engineers involved.

Sorta what I am thinking probably happened here, but I really don't know as it was already in place when I purchased my property...

ODDJOB UNO · ODDJOB UNO's Garage

ya know about 98.9% of the time, by just going into city hall and start climbing the ladder of idiocy, you will get a resolution to the problemo.

1) remember its jus lak the military. start at the bottom. bring "official" yellow legal pad.

2) when 1st person blows smoke up yer keester, ask for his name/badge number/phone number/e-mail and politely ask to whom you can have it resolved with.

3) go to their orfice(office). and start all over. when that clown cant give you satisfaction, move on to next orfice(office) and repeat.

4) after tiring of this "zzzzzzzzzz" you will finally find someone who may help you or not. at this point you go home and get on your puter and address a letter to all of these morons. you state that your problem hasnt been resolved and you are seeking remedy. if they cant remedy the situation YOU WILL NAME ALL THEIR WORTHLESS ASSES in your upcoming litigation against them.

5) now ya are at the point of NO RETURN>>>>>>>> either they will remedy the problemo or.............

6) hire attorney(background check him) that knows the drill. have him write them a letter naming all these clowns and the reason why you have a problem that you are now making their problem. at this point its sink or swim for you. either they man up and solve the problemo to your satisfaction or you sue them into the stoneage for being morons and allowing EBOLA/WEST NILE VIRUS/MALARIA/AIDS/RATTLESNAKES screw your quality of life up so much that you are mentally unable to function anymore for fear of leaving your doorstep.

hows that?

wearing a 10 gallon "HOSS" hat and a pair of colt .45's with pearl handles, and a pair of bandoleros(filled .45LC) may or may not help the situation!

futuresoptions · 12-16-2009, 01:49 PM

Sounds like a good start Uno, will be documenting all further contact...

john70t · 12-16-2009, 03:50 PM

As a start, I'd go down to the building commission with a witness and explain the situation. Take the pictures, explain the situation, and ask for copies of the parking lot permits. The inspector may have allowed the undersized pipe or the contractor may have saved himself money. The city might be willing to take care of it for you if you talk to the right person, but probably not.
Then send a certified letter to the owners and occupants of the church w/notating the attached pictures.

The puddles of standing water next to the foundation is going to cause havok in short time: rotting sill plates which travels up the wall studs, mold, destoyed insulation, rusting pipes, etc. That will cost big bucks over time and may make the property unsellable.

In the meantime you need to do some serious grading to get surface water away from the house. At the very least, dig a small ditch out to the road or backyard.
Hey, stack a circle of rocks and make a pond.