Spend 10 to 20 hours a month as a volunteer. Then have someone DEMAND a answer while you are spending time with family from out of town. That answer will be slow in coming. The volunteer only has so much time to give and there is no real obligation to give more. I have been there, done that.

As I said and then I am done with you I DO volunteer in many places I DIDN'T demand anything I just wanted to know why it had been 3 months and he had time to disagree with me on a thread but not answer my question. You obviously have an ax to grind, so grind it elsewhere ok YOU are the reason I quit PCA as I wont put up with your attitude if you are this pissy about the giving of your time then DONT I could care less. Bye I am done with this bozzo.

Maybe they just don't like you, and are hoping that you will quit?

Best,
Tom

I hardly ever visit OT... let alone respond. Sure, you can get the same discounts on Porsche and BMW parts without being in the car clubs.

Here is some perspective: I think what something is worth depends on what you compare it to.

I became interested in cars and racing and Porsches in 1983 in engineering graduate school. Studied in the engineering library stacks right near the pile of Car and Driver and Road and Track mags.

I got very interested very quickly. Test drove a 1984 944 for three hours. The Vermont dealer was very friendly and let me go by myself. He trusted me and wanted my business post-grad school. He made me aware of the PCA.

I bought a 944 in 1986 and joined the PCA. South Jersey. I was living alone and working all the time and decided I needed a diversion. So I went to a monthly meeting. The guest speaker was... Bob Akin. There were about 30 of us in attendance. I thought it was pretty cool because I had read about him in the magazines and watched him race at the '85 and '85 IMSA events in Miami. I got to go to them during business trips.

Well, I thought that was a fun meeting so I went to a second one soon after. It was nice to meet folks, but I was a bit of an oddball with my 944. Everyone kept talking about "going to Malibu" at the end of the meeting and asking if I was going. I had no idea what they were talking about until the helmets and driving gloves came out. Everyone got in their cars and drove about a half hour to Malibu Grand Prix. That was fun.

In 1987 I got to go to a DE in my bone stock 944 with the PCA. Lime Rock Park. now that was fun.

Later I moved to Milwaukee and joined the PCA there. Some autocross and DE and lots of great folks.

Then I moved here to Norcal in 1991.

Many of my good friends here I have met through PCA. At least two couples I know of got together because of PCA. There is a strong set of connections between our local PCA groups and Porsche businesses like **********, and Porsche racing teams. Top level mechanics for street cars and race cars. The PCA volunteers were a major contributors to the success of the World Championship racing team that ran Porsche 935's out of Mountain View back in the day (see Porsche 935: Moby and the Warhorse Gang).

Back in 1999 or so, a PCA friend bought a used 993 cab out of Florida. When it arrived it was not as represented so he declined to complete the deal. For example, it showed signs of having had a roll bar installed. He asked if I was interested (at a lower price). All the broker/dealer had was the name and address of the previous owner. So I contacted the PCA region where she lived (via e-mail) to see if they knew her. The president responded immediately. The previous owner had been very active in PCA. She had even driven the car from Florida to a Parade in Portland. I got all of the relevant info on the car and owner. I was even able to look up the Parade review from the year she went in my stash of Pano magazines. On the third page of the article there was a full page picture of her in the cab about to start the rallye. The roll bar was in there because she transported her grandchildren in the back seats from time to time.

Flying Lizards <<<< PCA

The Racer's Group <<<< PCA

Team Lost n' Spaced (won 25 hours at Thunderhill) <<<<< PCA

And on and on.

I feel that being a PCA member has allowed me to make great contacts when I have had technical questions about my cars. Back in 1994 I had some questions about 951 control arms and ball joints, I called OG racing in VA as they sold them. The suggested I call Dave Klym at Fabcar and identify myself as a PCA member with a 951. I spoke directly with him. Gave me as much time as I wanted. In that same year I was back in WI for a business trip. I called Kelly Moss in Madison as I had some questions about 944-series car development for them. It was a Friday. I identified myself as a PCA member and original Wisconsonite now living in CA. They invited me out to their shop for the next day (Saturday). Although the shop was closed, a few folks were working. I spent 3-4 hours with them.

I don't have to be a member to access the PCA tech group, but I feel better being a member when I do (my friend is in charge of that group now). Lot's of valuable information and they work hard on behalf of the PCA.

I started corresponding about Porsches on the internet back in 1994. Before Pelican, Rennlist and all the rest. Early-adopter I guess. Not many of us still around. People ask questions like: "how should I set up my 944 for AX and DE's... what should I do first?" Well these answers have been around since the cars were new. The nswers do not change for the most part.

I quite often see... uninformed responses in these modern forums. Folks seem to have lost touch with the years of experience, information and knowledge that exists on these cars. The PCA is a good place to access that stuff.

I could go into the differences I have seen through the years in driver's skills and knowledge... I always tell people I meet that have Porsches to start with PCA and to keep PCA as a home base for driving. I caught someone on these forums telling a newbbie that you apex later and later as you go faster. That is just wrong. Lots of stuff like that on the internet.

I could go on and on (already have). But to me, it is simple: What something is worth depends on what you compare it to.

To me, my membership in PCA has been and continues to be worth a lot.

- Mike
(Old School type)

I see they blanked out **********... interesting. I believe that that business sprung from the owners' involvement with the Porsche 935 teams out of Mountain View.

I've been undecided about PCA for quite a while. I joined because of the Tech events, but it seems like these are few and far between. Now, I do the newsletter, and I recently went to my first social event (I'm not a social guy) and my wife and I had a fun time. We're going to do more, but I have a '79 911, so it seems like I'm out of place. The issue is Porsche, right? Be it old, new, or in between?

Where in OK are you? We may have met....

I don't think so. I'm a Cimarron Region member and I don't get down towards Weatherford (War Bonnet?) too often. I do think we Oklahoman's should stick together though. I think I've met Javadog. Anyhow, I read some of the comments here with interest. I'm an old car guy and I do think Panorama caters to the new set.

Ok I was just making sure you were a War Bonnet guy... I drive to OKC all the time for WBR stuff... In fact I am a WBR member

I joined PCA in 2006 to learn more about my new car at that time, a 85 Euro Carrera cab. At first, I didn't attend meetings and events as I figured these guys must be snobby old farts. When I did come out to a meeting, I found them to be genuine, warm and inviting.

I was formerly a BMW CCA chapter President for about 6 years and hosted the HPDEs in our state. BMW, Porsche, and Corvette owners loved the events until the only track on our island shut down. I too thought the BMW owners would be a bunch of snobs when I first joined the club and found them to be quite different from my perception. We were all a bunch of BMW enthusiasts from different backgrounds.

IMHO, any club is what you make of it. If you are a member, it is your club and if you don't like the type of events, do something about it. If you don't speak up, you will not be heard. I'm sure there are many others that share the same feelings and together, you can make it the club you want it to be.

Bryan Okubo
President PCA Hawaii Region

As someone stated a while back, this is a pretty polarized issue and I don't think anybody is going to be convinced that they need to change their opinion on the subject. But, since is the internet, the thread must go on...

It's possible that there are individual members or regions that are as bad as some of you describe. That's just part of life. I can probably assume, with some certainty, that I wouldn't personally like every single person I might meet in this country. It goes without saying that the same would be true of every member of the PCA. So, you might deduce from that, that there would be regions that I might enjoy more than others. Some may have a more social focus, some may prefer to drive the cars. It's up to the members what they want to do. In fact, this may change over time. In my region, over the last 5 years, quite a few guys have started club racing. Autocrossing comes and goes, mainly dependent upon whether or not we can find a site that is willing to let us do our thing. We've been through 3 in recent years and one year we had no suitable site, so there were no autocrosses. The social chairman for a given year has a lot to do with the type of events that are run. My wife filled that role a couple years ago and we did some things we hadn't done before, and a lot more of them.

All this is to say that the club has always been about the people, and not so much about the cars. Long term members will probably recognize this.

As for Pano, I don't think that you can say it caters to the new cars. Yes, they talk about all of the new models as they are introduced, which is sort of logical, if you think about it. They did the same thing for all of the "old cars" in their day. They also have articles about current racing activity, which for the most part is about the newer cars, because thats what's out there on the racetrack. If you look at the support, the technical forum addresses any question, so if you want to see more about the older cars, ask more questions about them. The articles in the back that used to be written by Alan Caldwell were usually about the older cars, although sometimes he would talk about new technology. A significant number of the advertisers offer parts for the older cars, there are tons of ads for older cars and parts in every issue... I don't know about you, but I have red quite a few articles about historical cars from the past, both street cars and race cars. You see older cars on the cover from time to time, usually in some artsy-fartsy shot that Leonard comes up with.

The other side of the coin is that I happen to want to know about the new cars, anyway. Up until a little over a year ago, my newest Porsche was from 1986, so you can't say I was the local Porsche dealer's best customer, but I still enjoyed reading about the new stuff. I bought my wife a new car in 2008 and I may never buy another new one, although I'd like to have one of the new turbos. Maybe I will, maybe I won't. Who knows? I don't.

In short, I really don't see the bias that some of you do. I think there's more out there, if you want to look for it. Maybe I'm an optomist...

JR

Disclaimer:

There are several red-headed step children in my automotive inventory. To wit, I possess:

2 914's, one of which actually runs, or it will, when it gets out of the paint shop.
2 1972 911T's, neither of which has run in 20 years.
A 1977 911 (albeit a Carrera 3.0) which has been off the road for 6 years now, after a repaint.
A 928
A Boxster S (wife's car, athough I drive it more than she does. Which, is just fine with me. Yep, I like this car. A lot.)
A 944 (wrecked), which technically belongs to someone else, although I store it. Mine now, all mine....

And other, slightly more palatable old crap, which shall go unmentioned.

PLUS, I happen to like vintage French and Italian wines. And, any cheese, all cheese. Feel free to invite me to a wine and cheese event. I'll be there.

Wow what venom. I have no recollection of the other post you mention. It obviously was not important.

Take a chill pill. PCA will not miss you at all, I will not miss you at all.

The club can't fire a volunteer for not doing a great job. I think Mossguy got it right, they just don't like YOU.

I will admit that War Bonnet has some cool stuff going for it.

I use to be a member of the PCA and I only left because for a time I did not have a Porsche. But before when I was a member I was part of the Maverick region because I got screwed over by the president of my local region War Bonnet. The short is I was going to take over the newsletter but the president did not want me to do it my way just his way and would not let me be tough on the printer to get it out on time.

It is a longer and sad story but I will not go into it because I will not drag names though the mud any farther then has been done on here or Rennlist.

And by the way GH85Carrera good to see you man I have always liked your 911. My dad got a 911 himself now so I have his old 944 S2 cab (the purple one)

Honestly dude... I have you figured out... The problem was more with you than with the WBR or the past president... and ya... You don't want to push the printer... the printer that doesn't print for the general public... the printer that hasn't made us pay for our newsletter in well over a year....

Sid, he is talking about an issue from many years ago. I think it was 8 to 10 years ago.

Maybe so Glen, But this is not the first time I have seen him dragging this stuff out and trashing certain members of our region...

Glen was one of the few who stood up for me at the time so he knows of what I speak and I thank him for that.

2nd I have not said anything for a while you asked on a really old post for me to give the wbr another chance and I told you why I won't (and that was in PM) and I said here that names would not be said nor dragged though the mud unless asked about them or their company.

I stated my opinon about the pca and the local region there are a great many good guys in the club and there are many I would rather not be around so I just choose not to be around the club and use my money some were else.

Sounds like a win-win for everyone.

Best,
Tom

I was thinking about it till I browsed over the membership application.

I have no issue with name, address, charge card info, but there is no need for them to know what is parked in my garage along with VIN number. A list like that can be very handy in the wrong hands. According to the PCA, that info is not shared. Excuse me, but :rolleyes: when info is on a list, the info is available...the reason why my cell phone does not ring is because I never hand the number out.

My local BMW motorcycle club had a list like that...no longer, after I brought the subject up.

I guess I can always join and use the VIN numbers off a car on eBay. :D

Anyway, my only reason for joining would be for the magazine to see if it is of any value, the forum, classified ads, etc.

I'll save you the $40, if that's your motivation: Panorama mag isn't really worth it. The only part worthwhile are the online classifieds, if you're looking for a car/part.