No fighting in my thread. I have spoken. SmileWavy

Paid three dealers a visit today.

BMW: "We have over 325 vehicles in stock. Not one has a manual transmission, not even our M3s." OK, so I can't even test drive a stick shift BMW. Thanks for playing. NEXT!
M-B: "Well, we can order you one of the C-series cars in a manual transmission....but no, not the AMG. Sorry." Sigh.
Audi: "We'll offer you this laughable amount on your vehicle for trade-in. I know your vehicle is in excellent condition but from our perspective, it's really 'rough'. Those low-mileage TDIs are a dime a dozen and nobody wants 'em. Frankly, we're not at all interested in your business." OK they didn't say that precisely but it's a fair translation.

Moving along....

I'd think it would be fairly easy to get rid of that TDI.... My dad had no problem getting rid of his with about 30k on the clock.... You will have a hard time finding a modern car that isn't a bargain bin or full blown sports car that is a stick I would think...

Finding ANYTHING in a stick is going to be a challenge. Get ready for a road trip if you're serious. What's your price range? New or used?

Isn't it pretty hard to find a used TDi? Put that baby on Craigslist! You're going to get raped on trade regardless of the dealer.

Sounds like a Mazda3 hatchback to me.

Blue - just for kicks, scrounge around the internet and see if you can locate a new Pontiac GTO. Not terrible mpg, as large as an M5, as fast as an M5, has a six speed, and IMO, looks better than an M5.

Oh, and let the Government Motors part slide a bit; the GTO is made in Oz, FWIW.

That is quite possibly the weirdest statement I have heard in a long time. :eek:

What is this world coming to?

Whatever the world comes to, it soon won't involve a clutch.

You mean a G8 GXP, right? 420 HP, 6 speed, RWD, $40k MSRP. They're probably pretty cheap right now with Pontiac's demise. It's actually a damn good call, they're supposed to be great cars. Not bad looking, but the OZ Holden version looks much better. There's a guy at work with a G8 that has converted it to Holden bodywork (mostly bumpers), it's a damn good looking car.

Enzo1, I'll post a report once I have my hands on the car. It's ordered, but looking at 8 weeks minimum for delivery - these are apparently rare as hen's teeth as configured - we ordered it with only the preferred and climate package. I think any that come into the US with the manual tranny are loaded to the hilt, and I'm not interested in satnav, or any of that crap.

Yes. The G8 GXP. Funny, though, even with Pontiac's demise, as the cars were so highly touted by the press, I wouldn't expect them to be all that cheap. Maybe I'll look them up and see...

Took the words out of my mouth.

Similar:
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http://autoworld.files.wordpress.com...2010-img_2.jpg

Just looked around, there are more than a few Holden GTOs ( ;) ) available in the immediate vicinity. Damned ugly cars, but I remember being passed by one on an on-ramp like I was standing still (I had it floored in my WRX).

Ugly. Interesting. I think they're very nice looking in a minimal way. Regardless, you can't fault the car's underpinnings. That's proven stuff from down under.

I always thought GM should have unloaded Buick instead of Pontiac as Pontiac seemed more on the cutting edge; i.e. the GTO.

But then again Buicks are what sell in China. :rolleyes:

Oh, hey Blue: what's the immediate vicinity. Can you throw up a link? I'd like to see what the Holden/GTOs are going for.

Thx. SmileWavy

I'm tellin' ya dudes 3.5L Altima has 270hp and 258 ft lbs of torque and still gets over 26 MPG and phun as ph-ck to drive AND room for the kiddies and groceries too.

not enough room in them for $hit, we drove one too and they are pretty fast but kinda slow off the line. And it was so small inside I could almost sit in the middle of the back seat and use the armrests on both the rear doors myself. felt like riding in the back seat of a .....well a 911

DD: I just searched for GTO on the Phx craigslist. They all seem to be in the high teens.

Lee: I dunno, nothing from Mazda has ever appealed to me in any way. I have a coworker who just unloaded his Mazda3 and kept his WRX. Right decision, IMHO.

vwbobd: If you're talking about the Altima with the CVT, not a chance. Zero interest in a car with two pedals.

The G8 GXP looks like a fun car to me... One of them thoroughly spanked me at autocross a few months back....

Mazda 3? Pffft.

E-V-O...E-V-O!!!

http://csusap.csu.edu.au/~yzhou14/evo9drift.jpg

Altima is/was available as a 3.5L V6 with the 6 speed manual trans.
Look for a '07-09 3.5 SE sedan
TONS of car for the money

Yeah, those are fast cars. High 13 second quarter mile.

The only thing I don't like about them is the torquesteer. Its not crazy, but its there.

My wife has a 07 Infiniti G-35s. Pretty sure the coupe has a manual. Kickass car and bulletproof so far.

GH85Carrera brought his wifes g35x out to autocross... For a 4door it got around the track quite nicely... No clue if a stick shift is available though....

Are you against a new VW or TDI?

I drove a 2010 Golf TDI and was very impressed. I was really surprised on the 0-60 figure of 8 seconds- felt like my 6.2 second E36 in traffic. It has the drivability and smoothness of a gas engine. My only concern would be -10 starting, which isn't an issue in AZ.

I haven't driven any late model VWs, though, so I can't comment as to their improvements. Some with experience say the latest TDI is an improvement.

+1. Those are really nice cars, IMO. And not too much $$$.

I was. Now I'm not.

Reason was the VW dealership network in the Phoenix metro area. It SUCKS. The good news is I just found a highly-rated, reasonably-priced independent shop. They won't do VW warranty work but they'll do everything else.

I did drive a new Jetta TDI though it was the (barf) DSG transmission. The new motor is pretty peppy, and shockingly gets the same MPG as my current car.

My neighbor had a newer TDI Jetta with a 5 speed. God forbid you have to do any clutch work on them, ouch. He had an independent shop as well, and it was still very expensive.

I think you should drive one of the Volvo's with the 6 speeds. The V50 T5 AWD is a sweet little car.

Yeah, they're really nice. i forgot totally about those.

I had one of those on my ass in my 928S on a highway one night all the way up to 140mph. After that i walked him, but until 140 he stayed within 3 lengths of me.

The Evo's are nice, but similar to the STI, every 17 yo is going to want to race you. Not to mention the mitsu dealer network isn't the best, and as a company they are not doing very well right now.

Its too bad the Infiniti M45 doesn't have a manual.

Oh yeah, Car and Driver has an article on the new CTS-V coupe, and both it and the 4 door have 6 speeds. I agree with Matt, I would be looking at them VERY HARD if I wanted a 4 door with some zip.

Have you ever test driven a Mazda 3? My wife was opposed to "an econobox" but as soon as she drove hers she was hooked. After 100K miles she's still very happy with it and says she'll drive it 'til the wheels fall off then buy another 3. Automotive press has repeatedly praised the Mazda 3 saying it's like buying a BMW for $20K or less.

Here's C&D's take on it:
2010 Mazda 3 - First Drive Review - Auto Reviews - Car and Driver

Mini Cooper, made by BMW so maybe it can't be on the list.

Edit: I missed the 4 door requirement. The Mini Cooper Clubman, is roomy for 4 and fairly easy to get in and out of (back seat) on passenger side. If cost and gas mileage not major factors then I have to go with the Caddy CTS-V.

400 HP for $20k:

http://www.automedia.com/NewCarBuyer..._CTS_ext_1.jpg

Or 550 HP for $60k (new):

http://www.autospectator.com/cars/fi...ac-CTS-V-6.jpg

If my criteria was manual, 4 door, and not a BMW, I'd probably be looking here.

'07 and newer Altimas have almost zero torque steer. You must be thinking of the older ones as they'd rip your hands from the wheel

Acura TSX, drive one before you buy anything.

G35 infinity is an awesome car, big, fast and comfy

Be tough to find a standard transmission in most of the cars mentioned. I remember when my mother bought her 735 BMW in 1988. She definitely did NOT want a slush box. It would have been a special order with a LONG wait. WTF is it with the GD automatics in everything?

It easier to program the GPS, text message and eat a big mac all at the same time while driving. In a manual you would have to put down the big mac.:rolleyes:

Gearboxes aren't practical for the average driver -- or some survey says...

Who knows, really.

--Cheaper to produce one transmission instead of two, for one make of car

--Worse and worse traffic means an auto is more desireable

--Autos usually do shift faster

--Adoration for how F1 cars shift with paddles

--Better technology

--Engines with more torque means manuals must be needlessly re-engineered

It's like sloped top tube bicycle frames vs. the traditional horizontal top tube frames: everyone thinks they have the answer, and every answer seems to be correct.

Go figure...

I have a big problem with brain fade when driving an automatic. Even worse is the CVT I'm driving (loaner) right now. Engine revs at whatever RPM it feels like, regardless of the load, speed, etc. I can usually tell how fast I'm going by what gear I'm in and the engine RPM. Not with the CVT. Very disconcerting.