Ran about 250 bites through my spoon today

[masraum]

And I think I've finally got it. I'm still not on par with most of you fellas as far as marksmanship with a pistol goes.

Previously, I've had problems shooting low and left. I knew that it was trigger control and have done lots of dry fire drills to try to work it out. I haven't been shooting in 3-4 months. Today it just clicked. Previously, I thought of the trigger on my gun (Springfield XDM 9mm, striker fired similar to a Glock) like a single action trigger, click-boom. Today I felt the trigger differently than I had before. I guess I was able to finally "squeeze" the trigger. It almost feels like a DA (but not nearly that long). I think before I was jerking the trigger (shooting left) and anticipating the recoil (shooting low). Today, before each shot, I tried to relax my arms, shoulders, mind, etc.... Then I tried to feel the trigger as I pulled it, and that seemed to do the trick

Well, I still had a few low and left shots today, but much fewer, and not nearly as far low and left for the most part. Now, I need to practice more to make it instinctual.
Here are my best few targets. The center white circle is ~1 1/8", and each outer ring is ~5/8".

All of these were at 7 yards.

Last 5 shots of the day.


15 rounds


20 rounds


10 rounds


10 rounds



I went by Walmart after the range to see if they had any ammo to replenish. I was shocked. Last fall, I'd be surprised to see 500 rounds of WWB in 9mm. Today they had 30 boxes of the 100 round value packs of WWB. I bought 400 rounds. They probably had that much because it's next to impossible to find someone with the key to get it out and ring you up. When I got there, there were two other guys that looked like they were waiting. By the time I got someone to come get us some ammo, I was the only one left.

[masraum]

Just don't ask me to rapid fire or double tap. But I suspect speed will come as I practice more.

Right now, the gun just doesn't come back to my eye immediately. Watching some of those idpa guys shoot is amazing. They way they can shoot a pistol so it almost sounds like it's fully auto, sheesh.

[targa911S]

Just use the front sight. use BOTh eyes, stand square to target feet should be shoulder width apart. Don't extend your arms full length bend at the elbow and keep the spoon close to you so any perp will not have a chance to knock it out or take it from you. Shoot from about chest high. At 7 yrds accuracy is not as important as calmness and confidence. Shoot a perp at any further distance and you need to call a good lawyer.

[m21sniper]

They call what Targa is describing the Isosceles Stance. I prefer the Weaver stance for most things (especially precision shooting), or even kneeling, but to each their own.

Masraum don't worry about speed. As Li Mu Bai says in crouching tiger, "Real sharpness comes without effort."

IOW, practice practice practice and the speed comes all on it's own.

I also view precision to be far more important than speed, but again....opinions vary.

[targa911S]

Are we precision shooting? I thought we were defensive shooting. But as snipe says ...practice practice.

[HHI944]

Why wouldn't you want defensive shooting to be precise? I'm with snipe on this, I'd rather get 2 well-aimed rounds off over 2 magazines dumped in a flash. What you have to remember is that 99% of the dead-beat, wannabe thugs out there have had absolutely no firearms training. These imbeciles could, quite literally, expend an entire magazine at 7 yds and not hit their target once.

[m21sniper]

There are different schools of thought on it.

Targa's views are backed by a lot of experts, it's just a different philosophy. Both isosceles and weaver lend themselves well to some scenarios, not so well to others.

A lot of times dropping into a kneeling position is even better than both.

Sometimes you'll want to shoot as fast as possible (muzzle contact range fighting), sometimes you'll want extreme precision(a 'hostage shot').

I just shoot weaver/kneeling the most. It doesn't mean it's better. I do think Weaver is more precise than isosceles though. Kneeling is very precise and makes you a much smaller target.

[masraum]

I'm still very new at shooting. Ultimately, yes, it's for self defense. I'm still getting the mechanics of an accurate shot down. To be effective when under stress, I think the mechanics need to be instinct which means lots of practice until I don't have to think about the mechanics. At that point my shooting should also be precise.

I use an isoceles stance now. I keep my elbows slightly bent, and focus on the front site. I'm working on the whole 2 eyes thing. That's difficult, but I think I've got it down.

I use this grip
The Combat Handgun Grip

Thanks all.

[m21sniper]

I prefer weaver because it protects your nuts from a kick at close range, because it allows isometric pressure to be applied to achieve a more secure and stable grip, and because it is a very easy stance to punch/pistol whip or kick out of, as after all, it is essentially a basic boxing or martial arts stance (Bow in Kung Fu)

However isosceles has the advantage against multiple targets over a wide arc, due to the inherent turret effect of that stance. But it leaves you very vulnerable to physical attack and it is not as stable (ie accurate) for precise engagements.

Both have pluses and minuses.

Kneeling is great whenever you can do it. If you can draw and get right into a kneel you make yourself a much smaller (and initially moving) target, and it is an extremely stable shooting position.

Prone has a definite place too. Even supine.

They all do.

Whenever i teach a new shooter for the first time i always teach them weaver.

[targa911S]

I would suggest that when you get comfortable with the spoon, take a defensive shooting course. WELL worth the money from a good instructor. My guy in FL was a seasoned, crusty old bastard. 25 years a cop and before that an Army instructor (major). He laughed at my Colt 1903 .32 at first ("never carry anything that don't start with a .4"), but after I qualified with it and got high marks he confessed he really liked seeing somebody shoot it well. He was tough and unforgiving, but in the end made me feel very comfortable and confident in what I was doing. That is very important.

[m21sniper]

I agree with your shooting style for that particular pistol and your intended use.

[targa911S]

You talkin to me?

[masraum]

Yes, I'd like to eventually take one of those courses. I think they run a few around here, and there are some folks in my area that are very active in the Concealed Carry in Texas and NRA side of things that sponsor those sorts of courses.

I'd like to get my CCW, but at $140 to the state, $100 for the course, and another bit for the holster, I'm looking at $300. Plus, I really need to run more defense ammo through the gun, and that stuff isn't cheap.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by targa911S

You talkin to me?

Yes.

You have a small pocket spoon with small, turn of the century (hard to see) sights. Instinctive point shooting makes a lot of sense for your chosen weapon at pocket pistol ranges.

For someone with a highly accurate spoon with excellent sights, one with more range potential, precision fire makes more sense...IMO.

"The most dangerous thing on the battlefield is a single well aimed shot."
~Carlos N. Hathcock II

I agree with white feather.

[targa911S]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

Yes.

You have a small pocket pistol with small hard to see sights. Instinctive point shooting makes a lot of sense for you.

For someone with a highly accurate spoon with excellent sights, precision fire makes more sense...IMO.

"The most dangerous thing on the battlefield is a single well aimed shot."
~Carlos N. Hathcock II

I agree with white feather.

true, true. although the 03 and 08 are are bigger than say a PPKS

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by masraum

Yes, I'd like to eventually take one of those courses. I think they run a few around here, and there are some folks in my area that are very active in the Concealed Carry in Texas and NRA side of things that sponsor those sorts of courses.

I'd like to get my CCW, but at $140 to the state, $100 for the course, and another bit for the holster, I'm looking at $300. Plus, I really need to run more defense ammo through the gun, and that stuff isn't cheap.

Send away for an out of state Pa permit. I think it's only $45.

Pa permit is good in 23 states, Texas is one of them.

A fla non resident permit is the best. That one is good in like 33 states, but it costs a good deal more money.

[targa911S]

I just got my FL renewal notice paperwork today. I converted it to out of state even though I have a PA permit. Not cheap either $65 for the license, $15 late fee, $42 for new set of fingerprints. Ouch.
My PA permit was only $25 for 5 years. The FL permit was extended to 7 years.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

Send away for an out of state Pa permit. I think it's only $45.

Pa permit is good in 23 states, Texas is one of them.

A fla non resident permit is the best. That one is good in like 33 states, but it costs a good deal more money.

Sounded really good. I did a search, and this was in the first link that popped up.

Note that Pennsylvania state law regarding firearms requires that a permit be denied to an applicant who lacks a CCW permit from his or her home state unless the applicant's home state doesn't have a CCW permit system.

So it sounds like I'd have to get the TX CHL first. I'll get it eventually, probably this summer. I can wait.

[m21sniper]

I'll get the Fla permit if i plan to travel outside one of the 23 states that Pa doesn't cover that Fla does. If it was cheaper and no fingerprints i'd get it just to have it like you did.




Hmm, the florida permit covers ohio and delaware....maybe i do need one afterall.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

Hmm, the florida permit covers ohio and delaware....maybe i do need one afterall.

Utah is another popular non-resident permit state. It'll get you Ohio, but I'm not sure about Delaware.

Here's the TX reciprocity. I think we've got 27 states that'll play nice.