So why isn't the corporate world rising up against health insurance industry?

[speeder]

I realise that this might be a naive question and I'll be the first to admit that I haven't even followed the whole health insurance reform debate but here is my question:

With so many fortune 500 companies locked into back-breaking pension contracts, (union and otherwise), and with the cost of providing said coverage doubling every other year, why aren't they in open revolt against the health insurance industry that is raping their bottom line? Professional courtesy? Admiration?

This was bugging me today. Plus the fact that no one has ever been able to adequately explain to me why health insurance prices are rising so quickly. I know all about people using the ER and never paying, malpractice insurance, etc. but none of those things have changed dramatically over the last few years to explain all of the sudden and drastic rate increases.

[Tobra]

When a retiree hits 65, they get Medicare and the pension insurance becomes a secondary insurance. Secondary insurance is generally cheaper than primary insurance.

They have to get while the gettin' is good. Mr Obama is committed to ending their game. It is the proverbial train coming to the end of the line, so they are trying to cash in.

I could be wrong about all this, but that is my take.

[speeder]

I hope you are right about their days being numbered. I'm not in favor of mandatory or govt. health insurance but the insurance industry in general is one of the dirtiest, most unregulated scams in the history of mankind.

My paternal great-grandfather was one of the pioneers of the modern insurance industry and I know well what I speak of. 'nuff said.

[porsche4life]

My dad sold health insurance for a while and he would agree with you 100% Dennis... They are a bunch of CROOKS

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by speeder

I hope you are right about their days being numbered. I'm not in favor of mandatory or govt. health insurance but the insurance industry in general is one of the dirtiest, most unregulated scams in the history of mankind.

+1 google.

[genrex]

Whatever controls are built into the health-insurance system are certainly inadequate. Health-insurance company profits went up 26% last year, and yet health-insurance premiums continue to go up with no end in sight. It is what it is. Pure uncontrolled corporate greed, ruining what could have been a good system.

Somewhere, someone saying, "I'm rich! I'm rich! Beyond the wildest dreams of avarice!"

[Buckterrier]

GMA did something on the industry a few months ago. Had a guy with a bad shoulder visit like the top 5 or 6 democracies. I think they said the US was the only one that has health care for profit. And he didn't even choose 'our' treatment, which of course was expensive surgery. He did something else with pt and natural meds. His shoulder has fine afterwards.
Insurance and health care go hand in hand.
Capitalism is great, greedy capitalism sucks.

[flatbutt]

Originally Posted by speeder

I hope you are right about their days being numbered. I'm not in favor of mandatory or govt. health insurance but the insurance industry in general is one of the dirtiest, most unregulated scams in the history of mankind.

My paternal great-grandfather was one of the pioneers of the modern insurance industry and I know well what I speak of. 'nuff said.

whats this have to do with the Fortune 500 ?

My company has us all making contributions to the premium, my co-pays are 20 for Rx and 25 for Dr visits. Those aren't much but it must be enough for the company to continue our insurance privately.

[Rick Lee]

I'm trying to figure out how the gov't. is going to make insurance premiums go down by 1) not addressing tort reform and 2) not allowing insurance to be sold across state lines. Hey, maybe they can just cap profit margins. Yeah, that'll lower premiums. That's the ticket. Pretty sure if I were running a company the gov't. wanted to put out of business, I'd be trying to make as much money as possible while I still could. Oh, and that 35% corporate income tax is not paid by insurance companies. It's paid by policyholders. No talk of reducing that either.

[The Gaijin]

Health insurance is highly regulated and has high barriers to enter i.e. - it is fertile ground for scammers and uncompetitive practices.

Regardless if health care costs are low or high - there will be money to be made.

This is part and parcel of the real reform that is needed, but has been ignored in favor of BO's grand plans..

[Rick Lee]

I'm looking at a lab bill here I got yesterday. This is just for bloodwork, so it's cheap.

Total billed was $135.26.
Total "disallowed by insurance" was $76.23.
Total paid by insurance was $53.17.
My portion is $5.86.

In what other industry could any of us get away with refusing to pay over 50% of the amount billed? Obviously, the healthcare providers have to make up this money somewhere. And I'm one of the folks with good insurance. If they're losing money on me, imagine what a bath they take on the folks with no insurance. I don't see how insurance companies are the problem here.

[lendaddy]

The insurance companies are without a doubt gaming the system, that's how it works in heavily regulated markets. This is what makes the whole deal so frustrating. The general public thinks we have a capitalist/free market healthcare system, and we most certainly do not. I would call it a corporatist system, one monopolized, manipulated and protected by the very regulations that supposedly exist to protect the consumer.

Soooo..other large corporations don't bellow or complain as they are in the same boat albeit in different markets. They know it's more efficient to learn how to play the game than attempt to change the rules.

[Dueller]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

I'm looking at a lab bill here I got yesterday. This is just for bloodwork, so it's cheap.

Total billed was $135.26.
Total "disallowed by insurance" was $76.23.
Total paid by insurance was $53.17.
My portion is $5.86.

In what other industry could any of us get away with refusing to pay over 50% of the amount billed? Obviously, the healthcare providers have to make up this money somewhere. And I'm one of the folks with good insurance. If they're losing money on me, imagine what a bath they take on the folks with no insurance. I don't see how insurance companies are the problem here.

Rick, with all due respect, you are myopic if you can't see the insurance companies (both health and med malpractice carriers) and the for profit hospitals/HMO's as a major part of the problem. Doctors and patients get screwed both was coming. HMO's are excluded from anti-trust laws and the monopoly that exists allows them to greedily run amok. Doctors who have never had a claim against them see their malpractice premiums skyrocket.

And I'm one of the folks that has to pay super marked up retail for my health care, to wit: I pay green cash up front for services, I rarely get a discount (certainly not like the ins co's have negotiated) and the supplier does not have to complete claims forms or wait months for their payment.

As to your earlier post about tort reform...it is going on at the state level and the insurance carriers still jack up malpractice premiums. Keep in mind that the total cost of med malpractice insurance, the claims/settlements paid and the cost to defend doctors is less than 1% of the total cost of healthcare in this country.

Bottom line: DOCTORS ARE GETTING SCREWED, PATIENTS ARE GETTING SCREWED AND THE INSURANCE INDUSTRY/HMO'S AND FOR PROFIT HOSPITALS ARE MAKING INSANE PROFITS AT THEIR EXPENSE.

[Jim Richards]

Originally Posted by Dueller

Bottom line: DOCTORS ARE GETTING SCREWED, PATIENTS ARE GETTING SCREWED AND THE INSURANCE INDUSTRY/HMO'S AND FOR PROFIT HOSPITALS ARE MAKING INSANE PROFITS AT THEIR EXPENSE.

+1

RL, the tort reform thing is a smoke screen, and as best as I can tell, accounts for only a small portion of the price of healthcare.

The system is so FUBAR'ed, I hold out no hope of it ever being fixed.

[Rick Lee]

Dueller, I never said all was well with the industry. But not a single one of the "remedies" in the recent HC bill would have made things better. Capping profit margins will certainly make things worse. Fining uninsured people what amounts to less than one month's premium is not much of an incentive to buy insurance either. I know malpractice is a small percentage of the cost. However, the defensive medicine practiced to avoid malpractice suits is a much larger percentage.

My old doctor in VA quit his practice just before I moved. I got a letter from him saying I was one of the patients he and his group of three other doctors had decided to invite to join his new gig. Basically, it was four doctors who would be available to me 24/7, charge me a $1500 per year membership fee and accept NO insurance. These guys had very successful practices of their own before, but were so fed up with the insurance BS and what laws they saw eventually coming down the pike. They took a bath on Medicare patients and had to make up that shortfall with other patients. So now they just take cash, check or credit card and charge $1500 per year for the priviliege. I don't know how they're doing, but I'm guessing it's pretty good and this will be the future system we have if the gov't. drives insurance companies out of business. There'll be a gov't. plan for everyone who can't afford groups like the docs above.

[Tobra]

Dueller, you are going to the wrong doctors if you are not getting a significant cash discount.

Mr Richards, it is not so much the malpractice premiums, it is the defensive medicine mindset. CT head for a kid who gets a little bump, a grand, more or less. Ice pack, essentially free.

Rick, that boutique doctor thing you describe will almost certainly be eliminated if the Socialocrats get their way. Oops, you beat me to the defensive medicine thing.

[island911]

Originally Posted by genrex

Whatever controls are built into the health-insurance system are certainly inadequate. Health-insurance company profits went up 26% last year, and yet health-insurance premiums continue to go up with no end in sight. ...

When it was looking like we would all be forced to buy HC insurance, the industry stock prices hit an all time high. The thought of having the force of the federal govt pushing the insurance product (at no cost to the ins industry) was like a wet-dream for them.

This idea of govt conspiring with big business, to force people to buy, is absolutely the worst. ...unless you own a piece of the business that govt is pimping.

[Jim Richards]

Tobra, I can see that you make a valid point. Is practicing defensive medicine that widespread? Roughly what percentage of the total healthcare costs? How, or what systemic changes need to occur to wean patients off of expensive, unnecessary procedures, and to reduce the doctors' need to practice defensive medicine?

[Dueller]

Tobra...what I find is that doctor's are usually quite reassonable with what they charge. And I usually get a 10-20% cash discount when we ask. Example: Wife HAD to have hernia surgery last year. Surgeon fee was $1500...discounted to $1250 for cash. Very reasonable in my opinion. But the hospital wanted $9000+ for outpatient suite and $1500 for anathesioliogist...UPFRONT.

Called the doc back and his office arranged to do it at an outpatient surgical suite across the street. Sure...I didn't have a lavish recliner to wait for my wife in recovery. Just a folding chair behind a cloth screen. But she had excellent care, nurses very good. She was in at 7 a.m. and we were on out way home before 10 a.m. Total cost for o/p suite/anasthesia: $1700.

And don't get me EVEN started on BIG PHARMA.

[Dueller]

Originally Posted by island911

This idea of govt conspiring with big business, to force people to buy, is absolutely the worst. ...unless you own a piece of the business that govt is pimping.

Too late....BIG BUSINESS OWNS THE GOVERNMENT/POLITICIANS.