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I really like my Kimber. Buy my 1960's vintage model 70 is a pleasure to shoot. My favorite is my SIG 220 (although not a 1911).
Best thing to do is test drive as many as you can. Each design or manufacturer feels very different to every shooter. |
Thank you gentlemen.
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I have both a Kimber and a Para. I got the Para based on it being a special edition, and a double stack 45. It is not my favorite, but shoots ok.
My Kimber is an Ultra CDP II. I have had it for over 5 years, and bought it right after the fiasco with the external extractor. I disagree with the comments above, the customer service I got from Kimber was excellent, and they replaced the slide after I was experiencing FTE's every once in a while. I also use Wilson Combat mags in it, and I have not had a single issue in the 4 years I have been carrying it since the slide was replaced ditching the external extractor. All new CDP's I have seen are the old style extractors. 1911's are like Porsche's, everyone has their favorite model, just as some 'smiths with want to change certain things, and not others. I am a member of the 1911 forums, and especially on there, everyone has an opinion. Bill |
I'd like to weigh in on this topic because I've been .45 shopping recently. Aside from deciding what caliber I prefer I HAVE NO OTHER PRECONCEIVED NOTIONS regarding brand/style. I'm not a current handgun owner and I have ZERO brand loyalty and am no fanboy of any particular make.
I say this because I can go into a store and look at a handgun PURELY as if it's a soulless hunk of metal and make opinions about it based solely on the merits of its construction and assembly rather than the perceived reputation of a brand or style. Here's my take on the box-store 1911's, I've listed them in order of my perceived level of quality based on materials,construction,assembly, and fit/finish... Para Ordnance GI Expert $549: Frankly I can't believe any company would take a look at the finished product such as this one and come to the conclusion that it wants to slap its logo on it and send it out into the marketplace, regardless of its attractive price. This particular Para 1911 is one of those kinds of products that you can clearly see from 10ft away is less than acceptable. The parts have an obvious "cast" appearance to them, with little to no finishing other that a coat of that black duracoat, or whatever it's called. I was optimistic because of its attractive price, but the lack of quality was a severe deterrent. I'm sorry, this thing is a real piece of crap. Taurus 1911 $759: You can tell Taurus made an effort with this 1911, but without a stellar outcome. I have since seen on the back of a handgun magazine a Taurus advertisement where they tout something like 19 "custom" features included at no additional charge. Things like a ducktail and a beveled magazine well and so-on really help the Taurus look the part, especially for the price, yet this 1911 is still clearly missing something in the fit/finish department. The stainless looks great, the wood grips are as good as any other, yet the gun still feels somewhat loose and rattly, and the sharp edges on the slide give it that still-under-construction feel. Springfield Mil-Spec Stainless $699: This Springfield 1911 is what I would consider the foundation, or price-of-entry into this market, meaning, this is the first 1911 on the quality ladder I would consider shelling out my money for. At first glance it was apparent somebody, or some machine actually paid a little more attention to this thing. The parts looked very acceptable and the fit was smooth and taught. I DEFINITELY did not hate this 1911. Colt XSE Commander $929: Still probably the "standard" in the marketplace? Good materials, good fit/finish, but that extra couple of hundred bucks over the Springfield is probably because of its nameplate? I'd definitely be proud to own this one but I'd have a hard time trying to justify the additional cost over the Springfield. Kimber Pro Carry II $979 This was visibly and tactually a nice handgun. Great finish on the parts, which all seemed to be the "right" shape and size. I was surprised that for still under a thousand dollars I could find a 1911 that was so clearly superior in construction to the $759 Taurus, a difference of about $200. There were many other Kimbers in the case, most of which went well over a grand, some closer to two grand. This should probably tell me something both good and bad, but I'm not quite sure what. So here's the quick and dirty: Kimber: Buy. Colt: Buy......the name. Springfield: Buy with confidence in your fiscal frugality. Taurus: No buy, not up to par, but close. Para: Shake your head and walk away in disgust. Caveats: I told the clerk under no circumstances would I be purchasing that day, so he just let me play with the guns rather than try to pitch me on them. The order I have them listed was not necessarily the order in which I sampled them. I know there are many other 1911 makers out there, some of which fall into the price range I have listed. I did not look at those, but I would like to. |
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Jesus, did I really need to add to my list of caveats that my assessment was based solely on my initial impression of the physical, tangible qualities of the handgun, and that there was no range time involved?
It's already been established that the visual and sensory perception of a product affects how we experience that product, and that's merely the perspective I'm offering. Additionally, allow me to assert that once setting foot on a car lot a person can go a long way in determining which cars they definitely do, or do not want to test drive purely from interacting with the vehicle while it's sitting motionless on the lot. Maybe I should have said this, even though it's boring: Springfield XD45: Very comfortable, shot great, didn't love the trigger, still feels like plastic HK45 USP: Wide slide, loved the grip, felt like higher quality than the XD, this one's my top pic. Glock 45 (model 22?): Shoots great, mechanical simplicity is design perfection, I'd like more safeties. Springfield 1911: I prefer the heft of the 1911 over the plastic fantastic guns, always love the single action triggers, especially at the price. |
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But WOW, that is a nice gun... itch itch, need to scratch... |
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Am I crazy?
Go look at that Para and tell me it's something you'd ever want to point downrange. I'd sooner turn it around and use it to club an assailant. For nearly the same price you'd nod in approval to the Springfield 1911. My perspective comes from my longtime inquiry into the value of doing things well versus just getting shlt done. |
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"I don't own a handgun but I have shot one and I even handled a few in the gunstore. So this is what I think you should buy..." IMHO research when looking to buy a quality firearm has to go a bit beyond coon-fingering a few in the store. But maybe I'm crazy... |
Nowhere in my statements did I make specific claims about how well they shoot, or how responsive their customer service is as a determining factor in their potential purchase, that's for the myriad of other posters to try to quantify. In fact, from the word go I plainly asserted that my interpretations were based strictly on apparent craftsmanship/build quality/fit/finish.
They all go bang. Furthermore, it's been discussed ad-nauseam that it's the shooter's skill that ultimately determines how well one does make it go bang, that's ubiquitous. SO, I specifically left all of that out of my initial post. Again, I don't offer opinions based on the ownership experience, customer service, etc. What I can offer is perspective from an unpolished, unbiased "coon-fingering" shopper's perspective. Rather than inviting ridicule from the lofty heights I was hoping my opinions would foster some additional thoughts/recommendations for 1911's in that ever-competitive $500-$1000 range. |
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A used Springfield with $400-500 in custom work is probably impossible to beat from a total price/value equation in the 1911 department. Or a used Kimber. |
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That thing is really squared-away. You said in another thread that they're huge, which I could only find partial common ground on that statement. I thought the original HK45 standard was too big, even unnecessarily large. But I it seemed to me like the USP fell right in line w/ the others in the category, the P220, G22, XD45. |
The HK45 is actually the next generation of the USP...i think. I'm not real up to speed on the lineage of the plastic HKs, i just know people rave about them.
The original Mk23 SOCOM USP is a massive firearm. |
Straight out of the box = Kimber
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Good observations Tw, perhaps the peanut gallery is concerned that "I'm not a current handgun owner" and holds that against you. I'm glad you're out there looking, should you find yourself at my shop I would be happy to let you handle a small variety of 1911's (I guess
that the A1 part of the topic is a given) though I have none for sale at present. I don't feel the Glocks, HK's, and other wonderful plastic guns (however fine they may be) are part of the topic. And I don't want to be considered a snob, but how proud can you be of a .45 Auto made in Brazil (or the Phillipeans, or China, Spain, Norway, etc). Krikey, when we can't build a .45 we might as well eat one. Jim |
BTW 1911 shoppers. Series 70 Colts do not have a firing pin safety. If you drop them on their nose, they will fire if a round is chambered.
Not sure what other models and manufacturers use a firing pin safety in their 1911 clones, it's worth checking out, IMO. |
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I freaking absolutely loved mine too. I had the super high polished blue slide on it, with the white lettering, jeweled barrel hood, high vis tiritum sights... it was orgasmic to look at.
And it shot great too. (My P7 is a lot more accurate, but the Springfield was still plenty accurate) I really miss that gun. It was a Springfield Champion, but i never did take any pix of it. :( |
I had Robar redo mine in Roguard. After two years or so, I decided I didn't like the finish anymore. By then I lived in Phoenix and pretty close to Robar. I took it back to them, fully expecting to pay for a refinish in NP3 and they said, "Oh, you send us a lot of guns. We'll no-charge this one." Love those guys and my 1911 is so badass in NP3.
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