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Another Terrible Sign

Eyes on the Road: Front-Wheel Drive vs. Rear-Wheel Drive - WSJ.com

Quote:

When BMW AG Chairman Norbert Reithofer declared last week that his company would start making front-wheel-drive BMWs, there were screams from Stuttgart to Sacramento. BMW, after all, had built the Ultimate Driving Machine franchise on rear-wheel-drive cars. Now Mr. Reithofer appears to be chipping away at what made luxury cars so luxurious.

Auto enthusiasts—including many automotive designers and engineering executives, as well as wealthy car buyers—generally prefer cars to have the driving wheels in the back. It makes a difference in the way a car handles and steers. That difference is instantly recognizable but hard to define.

A rear-drive car is "livelier, it's more direct-connected to the road," says Dave Leone, global vehicle chief engineer for General Motors Co.'s rear-wheel-drive and performance cars, including the Cadillac CTS, Chevrolet Camaro and Chevrolet Corvette.

Mr. Reithofer's challenge is fueling the debate over what makes a luxury car special. It's a question that luxury-car buyers and luxury-car brands have been struggling with ever since volatile oil prices and environmental regulators began pressing car makers to evolve away from the "bigger is better" approach to marketing premium vehicles.

The advantages of front-wheel drive are mainly practical. Because the drive train, engine and steering gear are all packaged together under the hood, it's easier to give more space to passengers or cargo inside.

Front-wheel-drive cars are usually better in snow, because the engine weight is located over the driving wheels. And they typically get better fuel economy and thus emit less carbon dioxide than similar-sized rear-drive vehicles—although today's rear-wheel-drive cars are closing the gap.

Still, front-wheel-drive cars suffer from being pegged as relatively unexciting to drive. Driven hard into a curve, they tend to plow sideways. They can also be susceptible to annoying "torque steer," which occurs when unequal amounts of power are sent to the left and right front wheels, causing the car to lurch in one direction or the other.

The success of BMW and Mercedes-Benz over the past 30 years helped burnish the idea that true premium cars were driven by their back tires. In 2002, after years of losing market share with front-wheel-drive models, Cadillac relaunched itself with a new rear-wheel-drive car, the CTS, to compete with the BMW 3 series.

"For the last 60 years we have defined performance as the number of cylinders and cubic capacity," says Ian Robertson, BMW's global head of sales and marketing. Eight cylinders and five liters was better than four cylinders and two liters.

In the future, Mr. Robertson says, what makes a "premium" car will be equated with technology. "The number of cylinders will not be irrelevant," he says. "But we are moving toward that."

To survive in this new world, he says, BMW must build more small models without breaking the bank. Purists won't like it, but that means sharing the front-wheel-drive systems of future Mini models with future subcompact BMW models.

Japanese luxury brands have been divided on the issue. Honda Motor Co.'s Acura brand launched with a front-wheel-drive flagship car, the Legend, and derived most of its other cars from front-wheel-drive chassis. More recently, Acura has promoted all-wheel drive, which resolves the debate by asking a different question: Wouldn't you rather have driving power from all four tires?

Toyota Motor Corp.'s Lexus brand has both rear-wheel and front-wheel-drive cars—the former aimed at potential BMW customers, the latter more at defectors from Detroit. Nissan Motor Co.'s Infiniti brand revived itself in the past decade with a performance-oriented, rear-wheel-drive strategy represented by the Infiniti G37.

The financial crisis, the 2008 oil-price shock and the resurgence of social and governmental concern about the amount of oil cars burn and the carbon they emit is now forcing another rethink. To comply with the tough new greenhouse-gas and fuel-economy rules in the U.S. and Europe, car makers need to build smaller models that both sip fuel and make money.

"It's a different world," says Jim Hall, an automotive-industry consultant.

BMW is getting some help from its rivals as it moves away from rear-wheel-drive fundamentalism. Volkswagen AG's Audi brand, which has long sold mainly front-wheel and all-wheel-drive cars, has worked to make front-wheel drive more appealing by moving the engines closer to the front axle, designing more-sophisticated suspensions and engine mounts to manage torque steer, and using systems such as stability control to make cars less apt to plow through curves.

Cadillac switched its SRX sport-utility vehicle to a front-wheel/all-wheel-drive chassis from a rear-drive setup—and sales of the model took off. The old SRX got three awards from the car-enthusiast magazine Car and Driver, says GM's Mr. Leone, but real customers appear to like the new model much better. Now, Cadillac is showing a prototype for a front-wheel-drive midsize car called the XTS, which would appeal to consumers who value comfort over speed.

Rear-wheel drive may not even be that important for some of BMW's new customers. Mr. Reithofer told analysts last week that BMW had a survey that found 80% of the customers for the BMW compact 1 series, which in Europe is sold mainly with four-cylinder engines, didn't know it was a rear-wheel drive car.

Mr. Hall, the consultant, says the truth is that most drivers probably can't tell whether they are driving one kind of car or another. As technology narrows the performance differences, he says, "luxury cars don't have to be defined by which ends drive them."

Hmm, one thing not mentioned in the advantages for FWD is that the cars are cheaper to build.

My heart doesn't beat a little faster when I see a modern 6 series Bimmer, or an M3, not like it does when I see a mid '70s CSi. (I do have a soft spot in my heart for the 8 series, though.)

two years ago i stopped using my '79 911 as a daily driver. ten years, and the last two of them with the 911 as my winter car as well.
anyway, i bought a brand new mini s. it took me close to a year to become really comfortable driving a front wheel drive car.
now i like the mini so much that i feel like i am cheating on my targa.

do i like front wheel drive? no.
can i tolerate it in the mini? yes. it is a great little car, terrific in the snow as well.

except for a saab i had back in 1972 and my audi quattro that i had for eight years i have always been a rear drive guy.

i hope that bmw will at least still offer their customers a choice and continue to make rear drivers as well.

Funny how image means so much. I wonder what percentage of drivers out there in the general population can tell the difference between FWD and RWD from the driver's seat.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noah930 (Post 5255201)

Funny how image means so much. I wonder what percentage of drivers out there in the general population can tell the difference between FWD and RWD from the driver's seat.

My guess is a generous 5-10%.

FWD in a 1 series might not be a big deal. Folks are loving the Mini, and that thing is a go kart (so I always hear). So a FWD can be made to be fun. Just most aren't.

I can see BMW going FWD on the 1 series but 3 or 5 or 6 series, no way. That sounds like a great way to shoot yourself in the foot.

But hell, the pepper pot hasn't killed Porsche, so who knows.

I think RWD motorcycles will be around for a while.
Jim

That dog poo just made me laugh out loud.

There's rear wheel drive and then there's wrong wheel drive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noah930
Funny how image means so much. I wonder what percentage of drivers out there in the general population can tell the difference between FWD and RWD from the driver's seat.

I'm sure that most people who grew up learning to drive a manual would notice the difference between the pull/push factor.

However,
One day on icey roads is all you need ;)

But from a sports perspective, FF (front wheel, front engine) just bites!

Lastly, driving on the North American continent is pretty much a dream considering you have enough room to let the rear swing a bit, decent snow removal, salt, and don't have to worry about the winter road you're driving is not shaped like a bowl.

Makes sense for BMW to go FF since most people these days just drive their car :(

Car and Driver magazine will heap pant-loads of praise on anything with the Roundel, we can expect this kind of drivel in the years to come:

Feb, 2013: "FWD is finally ready for prime time. BMW has solved the problem of torque-steer with the patented BMW Torque-steer fluid dynamic electromagnetic dampasonic. This new 2 series Bimmer is the car we have been waiting for since the first VW Rabbit GTI, lo those many years ago. Even with points taken away for the flimsy cup-holder, no other car in this month's fabulous front wheeler shootout even comes close."

August, 2018. "With 5 years of experience behind it's corporate belt, BMW has finally exorcised the demons of the ill-fated 2013 2 series disaster. With the new patented BMW Drive Dynamic Torque-Steer reducifier, in addition to the 20 inch front wheels (16 inchers in the rear) this is one FWD sportster that can handle the truth. We rate it first in class among this months shootout of Frisky Front's. Imagine what this car would be like if it had a decent cup-holder!"

There goes the brand, again. The 1-series and now fwd are turning the bmw brand into something like the mustang brand of the mid 70s-80s--remember the Mustang II?

Yes, they'll probably get more young folk buying their cars but it will erode their market position for the luxury sedan buyers, eventually.

Kind of like the reverse of VW and their luxury sedan (name?). Who wants to spend 90k on a brand that's known for cute bugs with daisies in the cupholder when they could buy a bmw or audi or mb that's serious about performance sedans?

BMW will do what it has to sell more cars, enthusiast be damned. I think it will hurt them in the long run as the younger buyers who aspired to own M3s will feel abandoned. The 20 and 30 somethings who buy E30s and E36s will most likely stay with the mark (for now) and eventually go on to buy 5 and 7 series cars. But the heritage and "feel" has to be there.

If they move away from that they will lose those younger, aspirational buyers. The only new car I ever purchased was my '04 325i and I will never buy another new (post 2005) BMW because of the direction the company is moving. The performance of the new cars is fantastic but I hate everything else about them.

Buick has the opposite problem. The average age of a new Buick buyer is 70! They are desperate to turn this around because their potential market base will soon be dead. Nobody under the age 45 yearns to own a Buick. I think 20 years from now the average age of the BMW new car buyer will be much older than it is now. Closer to what Mercedes is now.

The funny thing is that my wife has already owned three Buicks and she is only 28. She is the exception to the Buick ownership rule. We got her the Envoy Denali because it is basicallly the same truck as the discontinued Buick Ranier that she wanted.

the new mini is a BMW
so the new BMW will be a mini

If micro-BMWs have FWD, I can't get too excited about it. Makes sense on a micro platform. Those baby-bimmers have often been sold to people just wanting to say they drive a BMW anyway.

I have faith that management is smart enough to keep RWD/AWD on the 3, 5, 6, and 7 lines.

Quote:

Originally Posted by herr_oberst (Post 5256244)

LOL! Well written.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtc (Post 5255831)

Not surprising.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1269472804.jpg

this was worth the visit!! LOL!

Quote:

Originally Posted by masraum (Post 5255249)

The 1 series is a hoot, it's really well balanced, kinda like a modern day 944..
With the TC and ESP off, i go sideways more often then people change their underwear...

They would be stupid to make the 1 series a FWD car, because then it becomes just another hatch back like a Golf, new Scirocco Audi A3, Volvo C30, Seat Leon, Ford Focus ,etc etc..the 1 series now, is the only car of it's size that has RWD..

That's a big selling point, something to differentiate it from the rest of the hot hatches... If they are that stupid... well, guess i'll have to go for a 3 series then next time...I'de rather not, i like the fact that i can get the same power in a smaller, lighter Bmw then a 3 series..

They said it's for a car that shares the base platform with a Mini... so i'm thinking BMW is going to start going for the thing they haven't done so far...econoboxes like the Mini, Mercedes A, Audi A1 and A2... VW Fox/Polo, Ford Fiesta and what not.. they can't incorporate a RWD drive train if the car is that small, it takes to much space away on such small cars.. And if they are that small/short, then the RWD doesn't make any sense anyway... they are to top heavy/short for any decent kind of RWD fun anyay..

The typical BMW owner won't even notice the difference between FWD and AWD.

When I hear people claiming how well their FWD car handles, I laugh (on the inside).

There are very few FWD cars that have been tweaked well enough to be considered a 'decent' handler. Two come to mind:
- Mini Cooper (old and new)
- Acura Integra GS-R

There is another aspect of a FWD car that makes sense in terms of general public use: most average drivers react favorably to a FWD car when it starts to slide:
- Most FWD cars exhibit understeer.
- Best way to overcome understeer is to lift/brake to allow weight transfer to the front of the car.
- Most people will lift and or brake in sliding situations when panic sets in.
So FWD cars are well suited for the average driver.

-Z-man.