1992 Touring Wagon with M3 Motor

jhynesrockmtn · 03-22-2010, 08:18 PM

Ok, I know there are a bunch of BMW guys here. I know next to nothing about them but this car caught my eye last week and I checked it out today. Am a crazy for looking at this? I'd get it checked out, they are asking $17k. It is very clean although the exhaust is way overboard and loud for a DD which is what I'd buy it for and the car is throwing codes on the gauge cluster due to the swap. The tech that did it said they can install a custom piece to replace the warning area. A few missing interior trim bits and it needs to be aligned and corner balanced.

1992 525i Touring Wagon. This car has such an amazing list of upgrades. Ok, lets start with an 3.0L M3 motor from a 195 M3 with only 90K miles, and then they bolted on an Active Autowerk supercharger with 315hp at the crank, backed by Brembo GT four piston brake calipers, E34 M5 body kit from Europe, Euro Hella Elipsoid headlights with French fog lights, New Euro bumper trim, Sport Euro M5 front seats, 17x8 throwing stars, 5-speed manual conversion. Coilover Conversion kit from Koni-Eibach with new Control Arms and other upgrades installed by Group 2 Motorsports in Seattle. Custom stereo with iPod hook-up. Over $40K has been spent on this E34.

It's been for sale on and off in the Seattle area for some time now, just consigned at a local specialty dealer.

Thoughts?

BeyGon · 03-22-2010, 08:23 PM

If you could smog it in Kalifornia someone else would own it.

Nostril Cheese · 03-22-2010, 09:06 PM

like he said. If i could smog it here, it would be here.

speeder · speeder's Garage

It's a cool car but not really logical at all. BMW made that car as a 540i, which is a much better motor for a hot rod wagon. Bottom-end torque + HP is what you want and you can have it in a factory-built, emissions legal wagon w/ no conversion issues. If you threw half the $$ at a 540i in performance upgrades that they threw at this, it would eat this car's lunch.

M3s are cool cars but much higher maintenance costs than the 540 when it does need something. Just doesn't make sense to me.

speeder · speeder's Garage

Or here's a real M5 wagon from Europe. A little more $$ but worth it:

BMW : M5 : eBay Motors (item 300408120099 end time Mar-27-10 15:41:21 PDT)

Sarc · 03-23-2010, 04:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhynesrockmtn

It's been for sale on and off in the Seattle area for some time now, just consigned at a local specialty dealer.

For what it's worth, the seller was offering it at 12K prior to having it consigned.

Macroni · Macroni's Garage

You would need an open wallet or mad skills to make this car right. Too many issues that would need engineering to solve. This is not a simple 2002Tii. This is a frankenstien.......

Run forest... run.....

Great looking ....

Sarc · 05:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by speeder

Or here's a real M5 wagon from Europe. A little more $$ but worth it:

BMW : M5 : eBay Motors (item 300408120099 end time Mar-27-10 15:41:21 PDT)

That guy should put down what he's smoking and spend some time presenting his car a little bit better if he wants 36 grand for a molested M5 (he wanted 45 last week).

Jhynes,
If your serious, I highly recommend you take a look at this

5 series. The car is immaculate, the seller is a well respected member on the E28 board and he is meticulous about the maintenance on his cars. His reason for selling the Dinan is that he's thinning the herd to focus on his collection of M5s from every generation, with an E28 M5 and a E12 M535 the only remaining pieces of his puzzle. The auction has no reserve, but prior to listing it, he was offering it around the low teens.

jhynesrockmtn · 03-23-2010, 05:43 AM

Quote:

You would need an open wallet or mad skills to make this car right. Too many issues that would need engineering to solve. This is not a simple 2002Tii. This is a frankenstien.......

Thanks for the replies so far. Per the above, what systems are you referring too more specifically? The only swap related issues I noted in a brief look yesterday were "light out" and similar warnings on the gauge cluster and the little trip computer. Everything else seemed very solid, it ran great, shifted fabulously, brakes were awesome, etc.

We have emissions here but it's only an exhaust readout, no visual inspection so they don't care about a swap.

The reason I'm looking specifically at this car is it's a wagon, 5 speed, body style I really like (the 540i wagons I saw were all the next generation), right color, suspension is done, it's unique but seemed very streetable based on a short drive once the exhaust were to be redone. I'm not really interested in an M5 sedan or an M specifically.

Quote:

For what it's worth, the seller was offering it at 12K prior to having it consigned.

I've been tracking down ads the owner had placed on his own, haven't found it advertised that low but I was only seeing ads he's placed on various boards. I think the lowest I saw was $16k. If you have one showing it cheaper I'd love to see it.

Thanks, any other things I should specifically be looking at?

TechnoViking · TechnoViking's Garage

You can buy a lot of unmolested 3-series bimmers, much newer than that, for $<20K.

If performance is what you want, <$25K gets you an actual E46 M3 designed by German dudes using windtunnels and CAD software, not something that was cobbled up in some guy's garage.

jhynesrockmtn · 03-23-2010, 07:24 AM

Quote:

You can buy a lot of unmolested 3-series bimmers, much newer than that, for $<20K.

If performance is what you want, <$25K gets you an actual E46 M3 designed by German dudes using windtunnels and CAD software, not something that was cobbled up in some guy's garage.

I'm not interested in a sedan or a 3 series wagon, they are too small.

I don't quite understand the cobbled together in some guys garage comment.

The suspension was done by one of the best specialist shops in the Seattle area, Group 2 supports many of our local P-cars, and racers. The engine swap was done also at a very reputable BMW specialist in the area. How is this much different than some guy swapping a 3.6 into his 72T if it is done correctly? I am leary of swapped cars, been through a bad one with an old Jetta so I would be picky and this may in the end be nothing more than a cool car but it is definitely not something that is a cobbled together mess.

dd74 · 03-23-2010, 08:26 AM

Too much to go wrong. Speeder has the right idea: just buy a 540i wagon. Who knows? Less can go wrong with a more stock car.

Sarc · 03-23-2010, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhynesrockmtn

I've been tracking down ads the owner had placed on his own, haven't found it advertised that low but I was only seeing ads he's placed on various boards. I think the lowest I saw was $16k. If you have one showing it cheaper I'd love to see it.

I believe it was on bimmerforums where I saw it down to 12. Interestingly, he updated the ad in January stating that it was sold.

Rufblackbird · 03-23-2010, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarc

jhynes,
If your serious, I highly recommend you take a look at this

5 series. The car is immaculate, the seller is a well respected member on the E28 board and he is meticulous about the maintenance on his cars. His reason for selling the Dinan is that he's thinning the herd to focus on his collection of M5s from every generation, with an E28 M5 and a E12 M535 the only remaining pieces of his puzzle. The auction has no reserve, but prior to listing it, he was offering it around the low teens.

Oh my.... *drool*

speeder · speeder's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarc

That guy should put down what he's smoking and spend some time presenting his car a little bit better if he wants 36 grand for a molested M5 (he wanted 45 last week).

Jhynes,
If your serious, I highly recommend you take a look at this

5 series. The car is immaculate, the seller is a well respected member on the E28 board and he is meticulous about the maintenance on his cars. His reason for selling the Dinan is that he's thinning the herd to focus on his collection of M5s from every generation, with an E28 M5 and a E12 M535 the only remaining pieces of his puzzle. The auction has no reserve, but prior to listing it, he was offering it around the low teens.

Not sure how you come to the conclusion that the M5 wagon is "molested", maybe because it's been super-charged and federalised by some of the best shops using the best parts on earth? That would definitely make the Dinan car in your post "molested". I don't consider either car molested, FWIW.

What the M5 wagon is worth is for the market to decide. I'd say that the market is willing to pay a hell of a lot more for it than the Dinan car, which is really a strange piece IMO. Your example may be the most Zymoled and Q-tipped car in Colorado but it's still pretty ugly and extremely dated-looking. The color combo, (black w/ light beige interior), and regular comfort seats is about as vanilla as it comes. The wheels are not to my taste and there is something that just doesn't make the grade about its appearance, regardless of often he details it. I'll grant that it's in pristine condition, but who cares? It has no sex appeal compared to even a bone-stock M-car of any vintage. Total waste of $$ when new. Maybe that's why he's willing to give it away and only seems to want real M5s now. I actually prefer my cars with a scratch or nick here and there. They're cheaper to buy and I like to drive them and actually use them as a car, including parking near the mall entrance.

To each their own, YMMV, etc...

Dueller · 12:39 PM

Nice car...I have a plain jane '92 525itd you can have sans engine if you want to build your own but I doubt you could do it for what this car will fetch. I also have a 2003 525it that is a much better car than my old wagon...but, to each his own.

FWIW 1998-2003 540it with 6 speeds are out there. I know because I ran across 2 when shopping for my latest 525it. I was suprised because as wagons they were cheaper than sedans and as 6 speeds they were cheaper than autos. I passed on a 2001 540it w/6sp and Msport package at around $10-11K IIRC.

My favorite BMW I had to let go was a 1985 Euro M6 tuned by Dinan...5 sp and a dyno measured 327+ hp at the wheels made it a real sleeper. Many Camaros and Mustangs of the '90's were shocked in the stop light grand prix.

speeder · speeder's Garage

EDIT: Just looked at the Dinan car again, it's actually decent looking on the outside but the interior is as dull as they come for that body BMW. This is where a real M-car shines.

I was driving my friend's new M3 sedan this past weekend, it's a beautiful car in the best colors w/ suede on steering wheel, etc. He takes care of it but does not cry if it gets a paint chip. It's a car. Nothing more. He's too busy enjoying life to even think about stuff like that. I feel for the Dinan owner with his severe OCD, there is no way on earth that he's fully enjoying his cars or his life, for that matter.

Sorry for the detour, it just bugged me and I needed to rant.

Sarc · 03-23-2010, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by speeder

Sorry for the detour, it just bugged me and I needed to rant.

It was not my intent to bug you. I just personally disagreed with your opinion that your M5 is worth the extra $$$. For me, to spend the money to federalize such a rare bird, then go on to spend even more money modifying it in a matter that contradicts its designer's intent, and then post it for sale appearing in that condition for a laughable price to me warrents the put down the crack pipe remark. I'm sure there are quite a few people that dig filthy cars, worn seats and an engine cover that no longer fits due to the modifications performed under the hood, I just don't happen to be one of them.

My reasoning for posting the Dinan was that it seemed a little closer in spirit to the original poster's assumed budget (assuming that he might be interested in a sedan version of the same generation) and happens to be offered by a reputable and well known seller within the community...something that might be appealing to someone like the original poster who is not as familiar with the marque. Sure, it's appearance might not be everyone's cup of tea, but those aesthetic "enhancements" can be easily (and inexpensively) reversed. Sorry that bugged you...

jhynesrockmtn · 03-23-2010, 01:58 PM

Quote:

I believe it was on bimmerforums where I saw it down to 12. Interestingly, he updated the ad in January stating that it was sold.

Yep, I found some old ads as low as $12k with more looking and two different ads on different forums in 2009 saying he'd sold it. One in April and one in December. Also found some threads indicating he'd put a bunch of money into new AC compressor, receiver/drier, etc. and couldn't get the electronics on the AC to quit acting up, some more on locks not working, etc. Something smells bad with this thing. It's amazing what you can find when you google

It is beautiful and drives very nice but I couldn't put up with a bunch of stuff not working on a daily driver and I've got no time or aptitude to sort of bunch of quirky electronic problems from the swap.

The guy who owns the consignment place gave me the old "ac needs a charge" speech and lost a bunch of credibility doing so.

speeder · speeder's Garage

Sarc, didn't mean to say that you bugged me, rather that the Dinan ad bugged me a little because of this poor guy's fealty to what are really pretty ordinary cars at the end of the day. Sure, I would not mind buying something from an owner that crazy but still, it's disturbing. (To me).

There is a large swath of real estate between, "filthy cars, worn seats and an engine cover that no longer fits due to the modifications performed under the hood", and the Dinan guy who spends way too much of his precious time on earth polishing and stressing over door dings on a 1991 BMW. That's all I was saying...