Those ain't real stop signs
 

The young lady in the SUV just drove through the sign right in front of me in the parking lot { apparently the stop signs in parking lots are not real, how silly of me to think they were}. I threw up my arms in disgust at her so she stopped right in front of me and just sat there for 15 seconds or so. I guess she showed me. Driving in parking lots is quite a exercise in defensive driving these days.

I live in a gated community, and people generally don't believe in them. They will sort of slow down, but no one stops. Well, I stop.

Have to admit, if I'm driving through a wide open parking lot, with no traffic and clear views, I don't stop. Don't really see the point :)

+1

Add one more to the list of deviants who blow off private property stop signs.

You mean your over zealous neighbors haven't given the cops cart blanche to set up radar and watch for cars running stop signs like ours?

They do borrow the radar speed signs, trying to shame people into slowing down. Many want speed bumps, and I'm fighting that (low P-cars HATE speed bumps). Running stop signs is bad. I've witnesed a few near miss accidents, some involving me, because people blow the stop signs.

I simply want to setup a camera and have it check to see if people stop. If no, record license plate. Then post these plates on the HOA website.

Don't you know, stop signs with white borders are optional.

As a guy who rides a motorcycle, it scares the hell out of me when other people decide stop signs are optional, as I'm just as dead in a parking lot or in the street.

No kidding. Same goes for folks that dont follow the traffic pattern in a parking lot, I almost got clipped the other day. Head on a swivel....

Yep, same here. If the there is traffic/cars/people/stuff going on, then I stop. I also stop to let folks that are on foot cross in front of me. I figure I'm sitting on my butt being comfy, they're walking. At the same time, don't slowly amble diagonally across the road like the world revolves around you when you're crossing in front of me.

Stop signs on regular roads at 3 am in BFE with no traffic for miles, I still stop.

I"m all for speed bumps, I have a dog and raised kids. People doing 35 mph in a residental area is nuts.

The extra stop signs were installed instead of speed bumps. Rumble strips were installed next to the kiddie pool. No effect.

True.

I think it's pretty safe to say that in every run-stop-sign accident, the driver believed the intersection was clear.

The only motor vehicle sign on private property that carry the weight of law are handicap parking signs. In some jurisdictions Fire Lane offenses will apply to a private vehicle, in most places it is the property owner who will take that hit.

Trusting in traffic signs on private property is suicidal.

4-way stops signs really mean slow down and look for cops. Right?

Did that to a hpy chic my buddy was dating in high school 20 + years back. She beolieved it until we almost died.

Not true. Depends on where you are at. Example:

Ohio 4511.432 Stop signs on private residential road or driveway.

(A) The owner of a private road or driveway located in a private residential area containing twenty or more dwelling units may erect stop signs at places where the road or driveway intersects with another private road or driveway in the residential area, in compliance with all of the following requirements:

(1) The stop sign is sufficiently legible to be seen by an ordinarily observant person and meets the specifications of and is placed in accordance with the manual adopted by the department of transportation pursuant to section 4511.09 of the Revised Code.

(2) The owner has posted a sign at the entrance of the private road or driveway that is in plain view and clearly informs persons entering the road or driveway that they are entering private property, stop signs have been posted and must be obeyed, and the signs are enforceable by law enforcement officers under state law. The sign required by division (A)(2) of this section, where appropriate, may be incorporated with the sign required by division (A)(2) of section 4511.211 of the Revised Code.

(B) Division (A) of section 4511.43 and section 4511.46 of the Revised Code shall be deemed to apply to the driver of a vehicle on a private road or driveway where a stop sign is placed in accordance with division (A) of this section and to a pedestrian crossing such a road or driveway at an intersection where a stop sign is in place.

(C) When a stop sign is placed in accordance with division (A) of this section, any law enforcement officer may apprehend a person found violating the stop sign and may stop and charge the person with violating the stop sign.

(D) Except as otherwise provided in this division, whoever violates this section is guilty of a minor misdemeanor. If, within one year of the offense, the offender previously has been convicted of or pleaded guilty to one predicate motor vehicle or traffic offense, whoever violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor of the fourth degree. If, within one year of the offense, the offender previously has been convicted of two or more predicate motor vehicle or traffic offenses, whoever violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor of the third degree.

I'd love them to put speed humps in my neighborhood. We've got a nice neighborhood, 20mph speed limit. Kids play in the street, pets run around, I rollerblade with my dog. Lots of folks drive like it's a freeway.

Those signs are "not real" in the eyes of the police. On private property (like a mall parking lot), those signs are essentially just suggestions. A friend of mine's wife was t-boned in a mall parking lot when someone drove right through one of those stop signs. She called the police and they asked if there were any injuries. When she said no, they said, "You're on you're own - we're not even going to respond".

Here's a question for you in this same vein; when you are in a large mall parking lot or the like and there are big areas with no cars parked, do you guys ever drive across a row of parking spots rather than down the aisles, i.e. crossing the white lines that delineate the spots?

No. But I'm a freak about following traffic rules. Well, all rules except speed limits which I view as "guidelines". :)

I was told when learning to drive that driving in a parking lot is like walking in the jungle .... Always be ready for some wild animal to come out of no where and attack you.

Just about every day.... I think some of you guys are taking life a bit too seriously here. Cmon, loosen up a bit :)

I'd have no problems with speed bumps if they didn't force you to slow down to well below the posted speed limit to get over them. If someone stood in the middle of the street and did that, they'd be arrested. Yet, it's ok to install speed bumps that slow you down to about 5 mph in a 25 or 30 mph zone. That's nuts.

The basic problem with ignoring certain stop signs, in my opinion, is that it trains the mind to regard all stops signs as optional, and a conscious effort, which is not always there, will be needed to differentiate between the stop-no-stop signs, and setting the stage for a serious non-parking lot accident.

(Is there a prize for longest run-on sentence?)

Best,
Tom

Well, that's the problem with being allowed to use real stop signs on private property where they do not have the force of law. Right around the corner from my house is an elementary school and there are portable 15 mph speed limit signs the crossing guards put in the road during school hours. After hours, they leave these signs on the sidewalk corners for anyone to steal. But the local residents turn them so that they face the road and then motorists think it's really 15 mph there late at night, which it is not. I don't drive like a nut in residential areas. But I ignore those 15 mph limit signs at night and on weekends. I also ignore stop signs in parking lots when I know every store there is closed. And when I'm really feeling like a criminal, I'll go through a red light when there's no traffic around because my bike and I don't weigh enough to trip the sensor to make it turn green. Some people might wait in the pouring rain in the middle of the night with no traffic for the crosswalk light to turn green. I'm not one of them.

I agree. Following the rules can be cumbersome.

Best,
Tom

You must be mistaking rules for laws. I have zero obligation to follow rules. I do generally stick to the law, though.

They aren't forcing you to slow down, you're doing that voluntarily.

Be like motion, hit them hard and use them as a chance to grab some air in your car! You only live once!

I know a guy who cracked the case on his 964 going over a speed bump and got paid for it. Can't remember if the HOA's or his insurance paid. But the speed bumps went away after that. They took the speed bumps away on my prep school campus when a teacher's 914 got stuck on one. Yes, really.

This could very well be. As I grow older, I tend to err on the side of caution.

Best,
Tom

I see myself moving in the other direction. I follow many rules (and most laws) because I lack the means to deal with the consequences. When I am old and have a few dollars in my pocket though, I probably won't care.

Within several months of Christmas, I try to avoid malls like they have the plague. I had to go twice last year, I was so tense - for good reason. I had to take severe evasive actions several times. Scary place.

We'll see. ;)

Best,
Tom

That's fair, my attitude could definitely change as I become older and hopefully wiser.:)

Construction merge right lane closed 1/2 mile ahead- who gets left ASAP and which one(s) of you buggers slide right all the way to the end-avoiding us in line-to butt in last second?

Situational-dependent. I don't bother if there's nobody around and no traffic (and yes, I look carefully).

There's one stop light in my town. Uno. If I happen to hit it "red" at 4am when I'm driving to catch the train I treat it as a stop sign. No point in sitting for five minutes with nobody else on the road. Never an issue. I love small towns. ;)

There's a reason we call 'em "StOptionals"

You know that all studies of this indicate that traffic moves faster and smoother if "buggers slide right all the way to the end-avoiding us in line-to butt in last second". Look it up.

Being selfrighteous is seldom the optimal path through life.

In Washington State (in the olden days) in a situation like this, two lines would form and, at the merge point, folks would courteously take turns. (Called "one-potato, two-potato" by some.)

This seems to be no longer the case.

Best,
Tom