Very sad - Corvette beats 911 Turbo in every way

[daepp]

I can't believe what I'm reading. The Corvette ZR1 beat the 911 Turbo in every category other than interior finish? Road and Track still gave it the nod based on subjective attributes, but the Vette was faster, cheaper, quicker through the cones, stops in less distance, better weight distribution, lighter...

Wow! I think the boys in Stuttgart better sharpen their pencils and lighten their cars.

And for the record, I would never by a GM car. I am no fan of any other than Porsche, but I AM surprised.

Culture Clash - Article - Road and Track

[McLovin]

It would be good if Porsche could lighten the 911 Turbo some.

As far as the numbers, it seems like cars have gotten so fast, that they've actually kind of "maxed out" on the possible numbers. Like top speed - that seems very irrelevant, does it matter if a car can do 180 v. 200? Even 0-60, it all seems traction limited these days (look at the spec for all the modern ultra high perf. cars, they are all 0-60 in the 3.5-4 second range).

So the numbers, including track numbers, are all very similar for all the ultra high performance sports cars these days.

The biggest surprise on the RT article on the 911 Turbo was that the brakes went soft at the track, while the others didn't. 911 brakes have usually been very strong and always able to handle magazine test tracking.

For the Corvette, it would be huge if a $60K Corvette could put up the numbers like the ZR1 they used in the test. But at $120K - man, $120K is a lot for any plastic interior Chevy.

These are street cars first, not "last 10th of a second really matters" race track cars.

[SC-targa]

I was shocked a few years ago when the Z06 Vette was lighter than a Porsceh Turbo. Sad.

[Milo2361]

6.2L v8 vs 3.6L H6... I say Porsche still wins. guarantee Government Motors couldn't produce a 6 cyl engine that performs as well as a porsche

[jinos]

Originally Posted by Milo2361

6.2L v8 vs 3.6L H6... I say Porsche still wins. guarantee Government Motors couldn't produce a 6 cyl engine that performs as well as a porsche

I'm a HUGE Porsche lover but did you see the new ford taurus? It's a V6 twin turbo and getting some serious reviews. Pretty nuts..

Each bank of the 3.5-liter EcoBoost V6 gets its own Honeywell GT15 water-cooled turbocharger and electronically controlled wastegate. They're set to pressurize the intake charge up to 12 psi above atmospheric before handing it off to an air-to-air intercooler for additional densification. Meanwhile, a direct fuel-injection system squirts a fine mist of unleaded into the combustion chambers at the most opportune moment, further cooling the intake charge and allowing a healthy 10:1 compression ratio.

The result is 365 hp — just over 104 hp per liter — on 93 octane. Ford claims the system isn't running on the ragged edge, so even those of us in deprived 91-octane states should hit this number. The EcoBoost mill will run on 87 octane regular, too, but the output will fall off a bit.

You could argue that the EcoBoost V6's torque curve is an even bigger deal, as the peak of 350 pound-feet arrives way down at 1,500 revs and holds steady all the way up to 5,250 rpm. Turbo lag? What lag?

Lest we forget the "Eco" side of the balance sheet, we should point out that the new engine is claimed to use fuel at 17 mpg city and 25 mpg highway — the same mpg rating as a standard AWD Taurus with the 3.5-liter Duratec that makes 102 fewer horses.

[TerryBPP]

Originally Posted by jinos

I'm a HUGE Porsche lover but did you see the new ford taurus? It's a V6 twin turbo and getting some serious reviews. Pretty nuts..

Each bank of the 3.5-liter EcoBoost V6 gets its own Honeywell GT15 water-cooled turbocharger and electronically controlled wastegate. They're set to pressurize the intake charge up to 12 psi above atmospheric before handing it off to an air-to-air intercooler for additional densification. Meanwhile, a direct fuel-injection system squirts a fine mist of unleaded into the combustion chambers at the most opportune moment, further cooling the intake charge and allowing a healthy 10:1 compression ratio.

The result is 365 hp — just over 104 hp per liter — on 93 octane. Ford claims the system isn't running on the ragged edge, so even those of us in deprived 91-octane states should hit this number. The EcoBoost mill will run on 87 octane regular, too, but the output will fall off a bit.

You could argue that the EcoBoost V6's torque curve is an even bigger deal, as the peak of 350 pound-feet arrives way down at 1,500 revs and holds steady all the way up to 5,250 rpm. Turbo lag? What lag?

Lest we forget the "Eco" side of the balance sheet, we should point out that the new engine is claimed to use fuel at 17 mpg city and 25 mpg highway — the same mpg rating as a standard AWD Taurus with the 3.5-liter Duratec that makes 102 fewer horses.

Not to mention the quality of the Taurus is now equal to a BMW 5 series. In addition the new 5.0 for the mustang pumps out 500 hp all day long.

We just sold two 2010 ZR1's to customers that previously drove Ferrari's. They love the vettes. Quality is way up and the performance is ridiculous.

[jinos]

It sad to know that a TAURUS might smoke my 911. Even the new Hyundai's are kicking butt (Genisis). I drove my friends turbo version and lemme tell you that thing is a BEAST. Just a chip & exhaust system not to mention SMOG legal. Eats G35's and stock M3s like nothing. Pretty impressive from what hyundai was in the 80s and 90s lol..

[TGTIW]

I'm alway leary of US magazine test results. They alwaus seem to depend on who has the most advertising in that issue as for:

The result is 365 hp — just over 104 hp per liter

I'll be impressed when they can get that number without forced induction.

[jinos]

Originally Posted by TGTIW

I'm alway leary of US magazine test results. They alwaus seem to depend on who has the most advertising in that issue as for: I'll be impressed when they can get that number without forced induction.

The new 2010 camaro produced 300 horses/ 275lbs torque without forced induction on the standard V6 model. Pretty good, no?

[wdfifteen]

Porsche and BMW have been too focused on bells and whistles IMHO. The "performance luxury" class has become too weighted toward "luxury." I don't need a car that wipes my nose for me when I sneeze. I'd rather have the same car 500lbs lighter.

[TGTIW]

The overall hp figure isn't bad, but it's a 4 ltr motor, so that's still only 75hp/ltr.

[pwd72s]

Ford is coming on strong...but what's "sad" about the 'Vette being faster? Porsche/Corvette wars have been going on for decades. Makes things fun for car guys, right?

[wwest]

Originally Posted by jinos

I'm a HUGE Porsche lover but did you see the new ford taurus? It's a V6 twin turbo and getting some serious reviews. Pretty nuts..

Each bank of the 3.5-liter EcoBoost V6 gets its own Honeywell GT15 water-cooled turbocharger and electronically controlled wastegate. They're set to pressurize the intake charge up to 12 psi above atmospheric before handing it off to an air-to-air intercooler for additional densification. Meanwhile, a direct fuel-injection system squirts a fine mist of unleaded into the combustion chambers at the most opportune moment, further cooling the intake charge and allowing a healthy 10:1 compression ratio.

The result is 365 hp — just over 104 hp per liter — on 93 octane. Ford claims the system isn't running on the ragged edge, so even those of us in deprived 91-octane states should hit this number. The EcoBoost mill will run on 87 octane regular, too, but the output will fall off a bit.

You could argue that the EcoBoost V6's torque curve is an even bigger deal, as the peak of 350 pound-feet arrives way down at 1,500 revs and holds steady all the way up to 5,250 rpm. Turbo lag? What lag?

Lest we forget the "Eco" side of the balance sheet, we should point out that the new engine is claimed to use fuel at 17 mpg city and 25 mpg highway — the same mpg rating as a standard AWD Taurus with the 3.5-liter Duratec that makes 102 fewer horses.

And when you're not running in BOOST mode, that would be ~98% of the time, you're running a gas-guzzling/gasHOG detuned/derated engine. Sound engineering princles. something FORD apparently lacks, would dictate a 12:1 compression ratio for a DFI engine.

EcoBoost=TwinForce=Gas-Guzzler...only "boy-racer" mentality types need apply.

Use Toyota's new e/VVT-i, Extended VVT-i, technique (RX450h, Prius, etc.) to move the engine mode from standard "Otto" mode, 12:1 compression ratio, into Miller cycle mode, 8-10:1 CR, as BOOST rises.

Why is it that Porsche and Lexus can figure out how to have 12:1 CR with DFI while everyone else only reaches that level (and beyond..??) with BOOST..??

[wwest]

Originally Posted by jinos

I'm a HUGE Porsche lover but did you see the new ford taurus? It's a V6 twin turbo and getting some serious reviews. Pretty nuts..

Each bank of the 3.5-liter EcoBoost V6 gets its own Honeywell GT15 water-cooled turbocharger and electronically controlled wastegate. They're set to pressurize the intake charge up to 12 psi above atmospheric before handing it off to an air-to-air intercooler for additional densification. Meanwhile, a direct fuel-injection system squirts a fine mist of unleaded into the combustion chambers at the most opportune moment, further cooling the intake charge and allowing a healthy 10:1 compression ratio.

The result is 365 hp — just over 104 hp per liter — on 93 octane. Ford claims the system isn't running on the ragged edge, so even those of us in deprived 91-octane states should hit this number. The EcoBoost mill will run on 87 octane regular, too, but the output will fall off a bit.

You could argue that the EcoBoost V6's torque curve is an even bigger deal, as the peak of 350 pound-feet arrives way down at 1,500 revs and holds steady all the way up to 5,250 rpm. Turbo lag? What lag?

Lest we forget the "Eco" side of the balance sheet, we should point out that the new engine is claimed to use fuel at 17 mpg city and 25 mpg highway — the same mpg rating as a standard AWD Taurus with the 3.5-liter Duratec that makes 102 fewer horses.

"..allowing a healthy 10:1 compression ratio.."

No, for a properly designed DFI engine ~12:1 is considered "healthy". Check with Porsche and Lexus on that.

""Eco" side.."

Absent the need to accomodate "BOOST" this new engine, DFI engine, could have a 12:1 CR and thereby a rather more dramatic improvement in cruise mode FE.

[Embraer]

What about a 1964 Corvette versus a 1964 911? Performance-wise, I think there's little contest there.

The focus has always been on different things. Porsches were primarily hand-built cars. The Corvette was a higher performance car, with lower levels of refinement.

It's nice that Porsche really came about their element in the 70's and started doing the supercar thing...but don't forget the roots.

Would I buy a ZR1? Probably not. But I have to admit the abilities of it. It's a beast.

[wwest]

Originally Posted by TerryBPP

Not to mention the quality of the Taurus is now equal to a BMW 5 series. In addition the new 5.0 for the mustang pumps out 500 hp all day long.

We just sold two 2010 ZR1's to customers that previously drove Ferrari's. They love the vettes. Quality is way up and the performance is ridiculous.

Let's not forget that the Taurus is FWD. So unless a F/awd model is available the engine will most likely be automatically, pre-emptively, derated to a 200HP limit for hard to moderate acceleration in the lower gear ratios. Otherwise I rather doubt it could be insured. Might even be derated moreso in rain (automatic wiper detection) or if the OAT is near or below freezing.

Even the lowly F/awd Escape and Escape hybrid automatically decrease the level of torque supplied to the front drive wheels, pre-emptively, during hard to moderate low speed acceleration. The hybrid even uses the current OAT to adjust the level of regen to be used, lower as OAT declines.

[Hugh R]

I was surprised to find that my 08 Camry HYBRID is 90 pounds lighter than my Targa.

[wwest]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

Porsche and BMW have been too focused on bells and whistles IMHO. The "performance luxury" class has become too weighted toward "luxury." I don't need a car that wipes my nose for me when I sneeze. I'd rather have the same car 500lbs lighter.

Sorry, but I'm voting for more FE as technology allows, lower the displacement volume as technology advances. Adding DFI and the variable displacement engine oil pump could have resulted in a substantial improvement in FE while keeping a constant 300HP.

I rather like my '01 911/996 C4 with its LS400 class interior and riding comfort.

[78SCSLANTNOSE]

I know alot of you guys hate ricers,but credit where its due:Honda's S2000 240hp out of 2.0 with a 8,800 redline and 11:1 compression..

[IROC]

I caught an passed a late-model Z06 this past weekend at the track in my 1976 911 (in the instructor group, so presumably he knew what he was doing).