Generic starter question, my wifes Envoy.

lendaddy · 05-03-2010, 06:02 PM

My wifes Envoy won't start. It was cranking slower than usual for the last couple of days and now...nothing. It's in the lot of a local grocery store for the night.

Anyway, I ran over there to do a quick look see, try a jump, check the relay and fuses, that kind of stuff. The battery was up but it acted like a bad relay (full power to everything but no sound from the starter). So I tried jumping the terminals on the starter, it sparked a very little but gave nothing. hmmm..

Well then I was going to try a good wrap to the solenoid while the wife cranked it (in the event it was stuck). Still nothing, but then I bumped the main line from the solenoid to the side case of the starter something arced. I had the wife hold the key on start and I manipulated this line and it turned over a bit but slowely and the line smoldered. It appears that the connection on the starter is bad or the line from solenoid to starter is some type of fusable link? The connection on the solenoid end is easy to see and is secure, the connection on the starter end is hidden under a rubber seal so I cannot tell if the line is broken(if it's a fusable link) or if there is a mechanical connection under there that may be loose.

So I am led to two possible conclusions.

1-There is just a loose connection under the rubber "boot" on the starter body and the starter is fine.

2-The line is a fusable link and blew as the starter was drawing too much current(bad starter) and my moving just resulted in a fractional connection, a connection not able to handle the current required to turn the motor so it just further smoked the line.

To me it really felt like the braided line from the solenoid to the starter body was blown under the sheath, but who knows.

So do starters have

lendaddy · 05-03-2010, 06:08 PM

my sad rendition

lm6y · 05-03-2010, 06:15 PM

I would say the starter is shot. The new breed of starters aren't very robust. Gm, and Chrysler are using the same mfger. It should be a gear reduction unit. Very little power multiplied by gears. they don't drain properly, and start rusting inside.

I have two friends that have the new Jeep Rubicon, and both have had the starters replaced before 60k on the clock.

A930Rocket · 05-03-2010, 06:16 PM

IIRC, once a fusable link blows, it's gone for good. I'd try to clean/tighten the grounds and all the Pos wires.

A loose connection can mean resistance and the wire getting hot. Maybe that's what you saw?

UconnTim97 · UconnTim97's Garage

I am no expert, but i frequent an Envoy / Trailblazer website that might be of some help.

It is called trailvoy.com. There is some good info there when you avoid the threads about 24 inch wheels.

m21sniper · 05-03-2010, 06:20 PM

Sounds like a bad starter.

lendaddy · 05-03-2010, 06:21 PM

[QUOTE=A930Rocket;5331293]IIRC, once a fusable link blows, it's gone for good. /QUOTE]

Exactly, but are those fusable links or just a braided wire? Not that a braided line itself couldn't burn out I guess.

lendaddy · 05-03-2010, 06:27 PM

Ok, here is a good shot of the real deal, is the line here a link or just a braided cable? Just curious at this point.

A930Rocket · 06:40 PM

A fusable link on the starter? I'd say no, it's a braided wire.

A930Rocket · 05-03-2010, 06:39 PM

Also, it doesn't lol like gear reduction starter. At least not what I'm used to.

I'd try to clean all connections before buying a new starter.

lendaddy · 05-03-2010, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A930Rocket

Also, it doesn't lol like gear reduction starter. At least not what I'm used to.

I'd try to clean all connections before buying a new starter.

Yea, I don't think so either. Is there a standard lug/nut style termination under that rubber boot that may be loose?

legion · 05-03-2010, 06:47 PM

I don't think the gear reduction starters are used on GM trucks.

kaisen · 05-03-2010, 06:48 PM

Used starters are $25, new ones are $75
Just pop one in, your time is worth more than banging your head to diagnose

lendaddy · 05-03-2010, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaisen

Used starters are $25, new ones are $75
Just pop one in, your time is worth more than banging your head to diagnose

Yep, already found one at the yard nearby for $35. I'm just not a big fan of swapping it in the p-lot

lm6y · 05-04-2010, 05:56 AM

If you pull the nose off the unit, there WILL be a ring gear, three planetary gears, and the armature end of the motor will be splined to match the planetary gearset. I've had several of these apart. They actually have real magnets also, not electro magnets. Everything is so compact, there isn't much area for airflow to cool them, and they really don't drain all that well. The pivot between the solenoid, and bendix are usually plastic as well.

I've saved a few of the Jeep starters by just taking them apart and washing out the gunk around the armature, and reassebling them. Not fun on the trail, but it got us home.

A930Rocket · 10:09 AM

I don't think that braided cable is servicable. You can always look at one at a parts store to confirm.

Quote:

Yea, I don't think so either. Is there a standard lug/nut style termination under that rubber boot that may be loose?

Groesbeck Hurricane · 05-04-2010, 11:28 AM

I KNOW it goes without saying, but please disconnect the battery before you start wrenching on the starter. Sparkey can hurt.

lendaddy · 05-04-2010, 02:00 PM

Oh come on, sparky can be fun. Just adds to the experience.

j/k, I disconnected the battery of course.

Anyway, I picked up a used one at the local scrap yard for $39 and swapped it in the grocery store lot in about an hour. Most of that time was spent trying to get a hidden nut loose. Believe it or not it comes right out the top side, who'd a thunk it.

I pushed it to a remote corner first so as not to annoy the staff and customers (not as easy a task as you might think I may add, that sucker is heavy)

All better now, thx guys.